Name: 3rd Dec 2025
Uploaded: 2025-11-28T10:27:19.316Z
Duration: 42 min 31 s
Description: 3rd Dec 2025

Transcript for "3rd Dec 2025": Hello, everyone, and welcome to our webinar in partnership with Amazon Business. My name is Tom Chapman, and I'm the editor in chief of Procurement Magazine, Supply Chain Digital, and Manufacturing Digital. Today's webinar is part of an ongoing series with Amazon Business, where we explore the big issues keeping procurement practitioners and supply managers up at night. Now make sure you do visit the webinar section on the procurement magazine website for more insights, expertise, and success stories. And I'd also just like to mention our Procurement and Supply Chain Live event series, which promises to be bigger and better than ever in 2026. We'll be having more, plenty more conversations, I should say, similar to to the one we're gonna be having today in Chicago, in London, and beyond. So it's all all very exciting from a live events perspective. Now today's session, moving on to proceedings, is entitled maximizing tail spend in the hospitality and entertainment industry. We're gonna explore how procurement leaders in hospitality and entertainment can take greater control over one of the most elusive area of areas of spend, the tail end of purchasing. Now these are the countless low value ad hoc and often unmanaged transactions that can quietly make up a significant share of total spend. So we're gonna focus on practical ways to bring structure, visibility, and governance to these unmanaged areas. And we're gonna look at how organizations can streamline supply management, improve transparency, and use digital tools to make better decisions that ultimately drive both efficiency and value. So we've got lots to talk about and not that much time to do it in. So we've got we've got a couple of brilliant experts joining us today to unpack these themes and and and really to share their real world experiences. Jennifer Nicholas, global hotel practice lead at Adveito, and Quintin Remy, head of global procurement and strategic sourcing at MCI Group. Jennifer, Quintin, thank you so much for being here with us today. Before we jump into the discussion, perhaps each of you could start by giving just a short introduction to yourselves and maybe tell us a little bit about your your current role. Jennifer, we'll start with you. Yeah. Thank you. Thanks for having me, Tom. Really, really glad to be here. So I work with Edvido, which is the consultancy arm of BCD travel. And in my role, I lead our global hotel spend management team, which is where we have a group of very talented consultants and analysts that support, global organizations in managing and optimizing their hotel related travel spend. Great stuff. Quintin? So I'm a Quintin Rami. I work at NTI Group. We're similar company as to BCD travel, at which belongs to, like Jen mentioned. I manage the global procurement, community. We are about 63 offices in 30 different countries, so spread out all over the world. I'm based in Switzerland. And I oversee this, community as well as the external part of our community, which is our our hotels. So most of what I will talk today will be obviously related to to hotels. Fantastic. Great. Well, let's jump, if it's okay with you guys, straight into our into our discussion. I wanna start by the the sort of the, the overarching theme, I suppose, of of bringing structure and strategy to unmanaged tail spend. So, Jennifer, we'll we'll we'll come back to you. How, from your perspective, can companies identify and control that that long tail, as we say, in procurement circles of non preferred hotels, ad hoc bookings, and and entertainment expenses as well? Yeah. Great question. So I think, from my perspective, a preferred hotel program equals structured spend. So start by using your global preferred hotel program as a strategic lever for category control. And so when we talk about controlling the long tail of non preferred hotels and those ad hoc bookings, I think the first step is really bringing together all of your available data sources, so agency, payment, expense, possibly supplier data, and getting a consolidated view. So without that consolidated view, I, you know, would argue it's it's really impossible to accurately identify leakage, spot unmanaged patterns, or really just understand where your travelers are consistently moving outside of the policy due to gaps in the program. And so from there, I think your global preferred hotel program, really, again, becomes that strategic lever. So a well curated program, it's going to provide that structure that you're looking for. It's consolidating your demand. It's reducing fragmentation. It's bringing a large portion of those long tail transactions under a very intentional, governed sourcing process. And so when you pair that with, you know, a strong travel policy, a good booking environment that actually meets the traveler's, needs, then you gain visibility into that global spend. You strengthen your compliance with those preferred rate types. And, overall, you reduce your hotel cost by ensuring competitiveness against, the market. Quentin, your thoughts? Well, at MCI, we do not only do, live events. We are a global engagement marketing company. So we do also communications. But when we talk about events and hotel spend, we have to adapt that to the MICE world, so to the MICE industry. And the MICE world, each event is unique. A congress might look like the same one as another congress that we organize, but each one's, very much unique. It's in every destination because we are present all over the world, and it therefore brings a lot of new dynamics. And in reference to your to your question, I know it's just about wording, but we actually don't talk anymore about nonpreferred partners. We talk about partners and preferred partners because I really align with what, Jen, mentioned in a sense that we want to consolidate towards preferred global partners because this is the way that we also, mimic kind of the relationship that we have with our with our clients. We obviously have a lot of local clients, but we believe we are really powerful strategy partner being being so global, having teams all over the world, that we can adapt to those global clients. And having a supply chain adapts to that, really makes, a big difference. On the other side, we do not want to control too much, our offices. We we actually work either organically or we, acquire new businesses in different, regions. And I don't I don't see any point in acquiring a business and starting telling them everything that they have to do. Right? So the power of buying a company is actually you're buying, the the knowledge of people locally, and they very often know best. Right? So you have to still keep, I think, a bit of a freedom in the local markets to do their own businesses, as well and have their own local suppliers because it doesn't mean it's not because a global supplier exists that they are present literally everywhere. So they're finding the right balance between those two. Absolutely. Yeah. Certainly a case of of balance as we as we say often in, in procurement, I suppose. Moving on from that, Jen, just just just following on, what what frameworks just going that little bit deeper. What frameworks or or or governance models can really help turn the that ad hoc low value purchasing into a more controlled and data driven process? Mhmm. I think, for the hotel category, the strategically sourced preferred program is the governance model. But that's really serving as that framework that takes that otherwise ad hoc low value purchasing, and it turns it into a very controlled and data driven process. So that's gonna start with the sourcing itself, and the strategy behind it. So making sure that you are negotiating the right rate types and the right markets where you actually have the volume to leverage negotiations. And that's what really creates, I think, the foundation for predictable pricing, contracted, and more controlled service levels, as well as supplier accountability. And then you take the all of that and you pair it, with a more robust travel policy that helps to reinforce the program goals. And I think sometimes that's maybe the missing link is that that policy piece. Because when it's aligned with your sourcing strategy and you've got your booking channels, then I think it improves your rate compliance. It sets up good guardrails for your travelers, and it really takes that more informal decision making process. And it gives a kind of governed behavior, behavior behind it for your travelers. And as Quentin said, it it kind of provides that structured flexibility, we'll call it. Quentin, anything to to add there? I'd say that, at least on on our side, and, yeah, we are officially are focusing on two things, which are people and technology. I think you can't dissociate both of them, especially now with the rise of, AI. I strongly believe that AI will, obviously change the world, remove a lot of jobs. It's already, I mean, happening. But, see, I really believe in the power of people. It's actually in our in our motto, in our long long lasting motto. And we've been focusing in terms of our procurement community on those two things. First, we're building, our our own community. So we're growing that community that has been existing for quite some time, but we're growing it even more. And what I mean about people is that, obviously, online, calls like this are super important to keep in touch. And in, in terms of trying to gather that really build and gather that procurement community, we actually build a live events, two years ago. So we just did the the second one, which is super recent a few weeks back, which was I hope for everyone to success. It was success at least to to us. And we kind of want to have those guardians, you know, of efficiency, innovation, those strong relationship that I mentioned before that are first global, but also adapted to their their local market. And second, we're obviously focusing a lot on the technology and the digitalization, and AI is helping us, with that. I mentioned it before, but we're we're actually using AI now, to build our own AI powered, reporting platform. We want to consider data even more, and we want to use a platform that actually, maximize the the the value of that. Jen mentioned about predictive analysis. This is what something that we're also working on, and we want to have better visibility to make decisions faster and smarter. It's those two that actually don't exist right now, and there's a lot of smaller tools that exist. We used one for for ages for some of our for some of our clients, but it can be costly. It's not always necessarily translate the the reality of the mice industry. It gives some trends and so on, but we want with our spend, we we have a a huge, spend. We want to have, more data that really serve our global purse purposes, but also on the on the local markets. Absolutely. Now I I wanted that that word balance again, I wanna talk about balancing efficiency and flexibility in in supply management. I think a real sort of a big topic. And if we all knew the answer to how to achieve that right balance, you know, we'd be we'd be very successful indeed. Jen, how, from your perspective, can organizations really consolidate suppliers without restricting operational agility or service quality, which I suppose in in today's world is is all important. Yeah. It really is. So for Indino, we we've adopted what we call a reduce and diversify approach, which has been very successful for many, many of our clients. And so what that is is it's it's not consolidating for the sake of consolidation, but consolidating very strategically, where you really do have that influence. So starting by identifying the markets where you have meaningful volume and therefore real negotiation leverage, and that's where you reduce the supplier base and you focus on a tire portfolio of properties that are gonna have contracted static rates, performance expectations, and just strong service level oversight. So that, I think, brings discipline and predictability to the portion of spend that you you can influence and control. And then for the rest of your footprint, the long tail of the low volume fragmented demand, that's where the diversify comes in. That's what, preserves that agility. And so instead of forcing negotiations where you don't have that leverage, using your dynamic discounts, leveraging non negotiated rates through, the spot market to cover those other markets. And that's gonna give your travelers access to competitive pricing and inventory without the heavy lift of contracting in every location that you're traveling to. And so that's what I think results in a more balanced, ecosystem. You're reducing suppliers where it drives value, compliance, and consistency, but then you're diversifying your options elsewhere so that you maintain that flexibility and you're able to meet, the traveler's needs. Great stuff. And and, Quentin, your your thoughts on that, you know, from your from your experience? I think that, creativity supersedes, standardization. That's kind of what Jen, I think, mentioned. I I shouldn't probably, say this, as I'm in procurement. Obviously, I want the report. I want the standardization. I want the structure. But like I said before, I think we need to to leave some creativity to local office. At the same time, for at least, for for, it's not about reducing suppliers. It's about stretch strengthening our relationship and, bringing more intelligence, for for our teams. And we see that we see that with the tool that we are currently developing, will bring something additional. I I'm a big believer, in society, not even in the, but in society during speaking that you can't remove something if you're not adding extra value to something. There was this, debate in France, because I'm I'm I'm French. I live in Switzerland, but I'm French, around the train. You know? People using train rather than flight, so there was a big debate around this. And you can't remove freedom without adding some perks to something. So if you can't take a plane, from Paris to Lyon because it's not sustainable, which is true, you should have an incentive. You know? The train for free or super fast train or whatever it is, you know, or free can train every hour. And it's a it's a bit similar when you want to apply a global procurement strategy. You can't remove something if you're not adding something, as as a reason. So that's what we're trying to do with with this tool. That's where we leave a bit of, I think a lot of freedom. But at the same time, structure is as important as creativity, but it should support it. Right? It should not limit it. So, so, yeah, it's it's not a it's not an easy question to to to answer, but we believe we believe that also with constant communication, that's why we're also building that, expanding that procurement community also MCI. We believe that by communicating and having that community that really exchange feedback, we we we know we get closer to a perfect world. Absolutely. I wanna dive that a little bit deeper into, I suppose, to to, a part of the conversation that's, pertains even even more relevant to our to our area of interest today. Maintaining, that visibility and accountability when it comes to to spend. Now I wanna talk a little bit about when it comes to sourcing, OS and E items across diverse properties and departments. But maybe, Jen, if I come to you first to talk about maintaining that visibility across travel spend, you know, what best practices can we really implement in that area? Yeah. So to your point, while we don't source o s and e directly, I think those principles of maintaining the visibility and accountability, I think, translate very well into the hotel spend category. And I think a core best practice for that is continuous monitoring of your program for optimization. So I think oftentimes, organizations, they go through this annual, sourcing event for their program, and then they don't look at it again until their next RFP cycle. It's kind of this, like, set it and forget it approach. Like, okay. I'm done. I'm gonna table that, and then I'll revisit it, you know, six months from now. And in today's market, I think that really presents, the opportunity for a lot of blind spots in your spend. So I think that visibility comes from that ongoing performance evaluation across contract compliance. So are your suppliers delivering on the rates, amenities, and service levels that they committed to? Market alignment. So are those rates that you negotiated, are they still competitive, given the ongoing changes in either demand patterns or shifting market conditions? Booking behaviors, you know, are your travelers using those channels? Are they using the properties? Are the rate types that you sourced affected effective? Excuse me. And if not, why? And then leakage and exceptions. You know, do you have that kind of real time, clarity, into what your out of program bookings look like and the root causes behind them so that if it's something that you can address through your program, you have the opportunity, to do so. And, Quentin, from your perspective, from your area of expertise, can you add anything there? You know, the the sourcing of o s and e items across those diverse properties or or or departments. So, it's it's a bit the same thing. We're not a hotel. So we're an agency, collaborating with hotels. When it comes to sourcing, other material costs, we also leave the freedom for the project managers, account managers to decide in each market, what makes sense locally. We have quite, like I said, a lot of offices and most sourcing are done on the local or national level, ideally. And it also then obviously depend on the on the on the client and on the on the on the project. And we, on the other side, really make sure that all the choices align with, MCI global sustainable vision and our procurement direction. In terms of procurement, because we're talking procurement today, we just, we just no. Actually, it's been a few years because I actually presented it at one of your procurement supply chain, event in London. We, are still working on it, but it's, a tool that now completely exists and is being used throughout our offices, which is to integrate sustainability into our decision making for our client. For our internal events, it's kind of easy because you have all the decision making you want. It's your own event. Right? When it comes to our clients, we wanted to come up with a decision that really affect them and offer them, a chance to make wiser decision very easily. Because I really, I mean, I'm making a big parallel to sustainability, but, for me, it's an an important topic. I really believe that, people would never disregard sustainability as a whole. I mean, right now, in terms of politically, we see, some differences around that topic. But I think in the ground scheme of things, sustainability will come in any case to us whether we want it or not. So we have to tackle it. We have to take care, of the of the subject, and we have quite a big, policy around it at MCI. So that's why we want to we want to not focus. We want to to push our teams locally to respect that direction, and influence the best way they can their, our clients, to make great, decisions. But it's not always that easy. There's a lot of constraint around it. I mean, if you're doing some an event in, Marrakesh and you have to bring a certain type of material to your event, and it's only available, in Europe. And since you have to ship it there, you really have to look at the origin of the making of the event. I just, I was mentioning the procurement community event that we did a few weeks ago. We had a panel. Actually, we invited, the director of corporate services from the IOC, from the International Olympic Committee, and he shared some amazing ideas of what the IOC is doing, which relates to what MCI is trying to do with our clients, which is to bring a legacy to the event we want to to to build, with our clients. It's not always possible, but when you have recurrent, clients and and we try to work long term with our clients, we want to build a legacy around it. And what I mean by this and, I mean, our our speaker made a a great comment, which was that they looked at Paris Olympic games where they looked at the overall, capacity in terms of swimming pools in Paris, and they looked at one neighborhood that didn't have a swimming pool, which had an effect on the local Parisians that were not simply swimming and taking swimming lessons, which was a bit, sad. I mean, you're not doing a sports because you don't have a swimming pool in your neighborhood. So they built one there. So they're making decisions that really affect the legacy of, the event location, and this is what we're trying to go to. So it's not always possible, right, when it's just simple material. We're not talking about swimming pool, or trying to also reuse things that we are actually bringing to an event if it's something that had also quite a significant sustainable impact. Yep. Great stuff. Thanks, Quintana. They were really, really, helpful example, I suppose, as well to to illustrate the point. Now just just sort of as we move on to it, really, what the what is the the final part of our conversation, just I really wanna talk about just really ultimately driving performance, which I suppose is sort of the the purpose of all of this and and our conversation today. In what ways, Jennifer, can can digital procurement platforms we've we've kind of spoken about, the elements of this already. In what ways can those platforms really streamline tail spend management and improve compliance? Sure. So I think, digital procurement and analysis, platforms really play a huge role, in streamlining that tailspin management because they bring structure, consistency, and visibility to what I think is oftentimes otherwise a very manual process. So I'm sure there's there's probably plenty of individuals that are listening, that have sourced a global program via a Excel file, and that is incredibly painful. Right? So in the hotel space, you know, RFPs are complex, especially when you're looking at a large global, dispersed program. And so using those digital platforms and automating that workflow as much as you can, I think, really does help to drive some immediate efficiency and oversight? And at Aveda, we have, we've built our own tool called HPM. It's our hotel program management platform, and that's specifically to kind of address, exactly that challenge. So it it centralizes the entire sourcing life cycle, from, you know, the starting point of creating your solicitation list, analyzing the competitiveness of your bids against benchmarks, modeling different scenarios so that you can see the impact of different strategies. And so, really, again, I think replacing spreadsheets, replacing, you know, tons of email threads, and manual comparisons with a single more integrated tool allows you to kind of eliminate or reduce some of that friction, reduce errors, and speed up the decision making process as well. You know, beyond just the efficiency gains, I think digital tools also help to strengthen compliance. So when employees have that kind of seamless user friendly ecosystem between the sourcing platforms, platforms, the booking tools, the reporting dashboards, and all of those things are working together, I think that makes it easier to kind of live within your preferred channels. And travelers aren't then forced to go outside of or, you know, go rogue, to find those competitive rates, or the the available, inventory that they're looking for. Quentin, your your take on that? I always say that without data, you're just, another person with an opinion. So you need data. I mentioned it already two times. I filled up a broken record. I hope it doesn't feel like that way. But our AI powered reporting tool that we're building now for a few years, is already transforming how we, manage data. And we are now I mean, we talked already about data predictive analytics, so we are expanding towards that. And it's not only for reporting. Right? We want to bring governance structure, with, like I said, while, keeping the market's flexibility. So this tool is really instrumental for me in the long term, in terms of improving compliance. The second one that I'm thinking of is, Cvent, that we're using, not for entirely, the entire, RFP process that we have for our clients. So not entirely for our entire, hotel spend, but we use it mostly for, our corporate, division, all of our corporate clients. And I would say for around half of the hotel global hotel spend that we have, which is, CHF230,000,000. So significantly, big. And we use it after that, maybe 70% of the time, to benchmarks, send RFPs, and just, manage the sourcing process online, which speed up very much the process. It doesn't remove the human interaction as well, but it just speed up the process very much. First of all, because you have one set of data in one way, which gives the recap in the same way afterwards. So you have that, that the standardization that I mentioned before, that is not always ideal. But in those case where you have to send thousands of RFPs, yes, You need standardization. So it keeps the structure, but it's agile because it's not mandatory for talents to use. I also strongly believe that you can't push down the throat something if you want people to to actually use it. There's this great metaphor that, you know, on the the the wind and the sand and the the the wind and the sun that wants to remove the coat of, of a traveler. And, you know, the the wind tries to blow and blow and blow, and the sun just warm the people the the the person, and the person just takes the the coat, off. So, I mean, there's a need for structure. There's a need for standardization. Reporting are not always fun, but we have to do it, and you have to enforce that, unfortunately. But, but if you prove that the tool is really saving your some time or bring actual benefits, then people will will use it. Absolutely. Yeah. No. I think that's all important, I suppose, when we're making the case for those for those digital tools. Now just finally, we're we're we've, motored along here. Just, one one final question for you both. And I guess, you know, we've covered some of this, Graham, but just to really sort of hammer on the point as we conclude. Jen, how can real time data and analytics really help procurement leaders uncover those cost saving opportunities and also track performance improvements. Mhmm. Yeah. I do think that we've already touched on this a little bit with just the importance of, you know, first, the data consolidate consolidation and aggregation, but then, the ongoing program optimization component of a program. And I think that's where the real time data and analytics are essential because they do take that that one time, once a year sourcing exercise, and they turn it into, a continually optimized spend area. So without that real time visibility, you know, procurement leaders are are gonna have some missed savings opportunities out there. They're gonna miss the early indicators of what could be underperformance within their program. Excuse me. So I think continuous monitoring is really going to allow you to quickly identify, where your program is delivering value and also where it isn't. So for example, if you were to take a look at rate availability, you know, that's going to help you the the ongoing monitoring of that in real time, it's going to help you, verify that your contracted rates are actually accessible to your travelers. Right? And if a preferred hotel rate is unavailable too often, then that's missed opportunity. That's missed savings. And the real time analytics behind that allows you to address it now versus seeing that in the data when you go to source again next year and trying to address it then. It's kind of a, you know, too little too late, type of thing. So and then on the on the behavioral side, you know, I think the real time analytics, it it's going to reveal booking patterns, what that leakage looks like, policy compliance. And so then you can really see where your travelers are starting to shift outside of your preferred channels, which properties are consistently, you know, outperforming or under delivering, and where that spend is is kind of creeping into the long tail. And those insights from those, you know, more real time live analytics is what's going to directly inform any corrective actions that you take, whether that's policy updates, communication strategies, or supplier, interventions. So it's definitely a critical piece. Great. And and, Quentin, just some final thoughts from you, maybe, just just going over and and summarizing some of the points you've made already on that that importance of of real time data and analytics in helping leaders uncover those cost saving opportunities. Yep. I mean, for us, being such a huge company, a huge agency in terms of the number of talents that we have our number of clients, number of activations that we do, our global, presence. This has to be a huge differentiator for for our clients. And our spend so like I said, 230,000,000. We do 1.5, million room nights, annually. And this is something that cannot just sit and just stay there. So we'll actually that's why we also built a few years back, this AI reporting tool, but we want to make something out of this and make it that it really save the life of our of our clients in terms of procurement. We want to like I said, there's not a lot of tools that exit at the moment exist at the moment. It's more regional or it's global, but then you outsource your own numbers. So we wanted to have our own tool, because of our large spend to be able to guide our clients. And we see a lot of our clients that are flexible and really want or really eager to to listen to to to us because the power of being a large company is that you have so many clients. But at the end of the day, all of the clients that we work with have similar patterns in terms of their needs, which is obviously spend less in the same quality. And when there is flexibility, we can definitely deliver that, easily. And by using past data, we will we're able to predict the future or at least trends. And based on those trends and based on that future, we can make, we can help our clients, make wiser decision in the sense of, making a lot of additional savings on top of the ones who are already doing through our, expert sourcing, through the relationship we have with their hotels. Great stuff. Thanks, Quintin. Now I said final thoughts, but we we do actually have a a couple of, presubmitted questions, from our audience. I think I've only probably got time for for one of those. So I'll I'll go for this one. So, continuous monitoring may sound ideal, but how do you keep supplier performance tracking efficient throughout the year without overwhelming your internal resources? Jennifer, can you can you shed any light on that one? Yes. So I think I think, first, continuous monitoring doesn't have to be a heavy internal burden. You know, I think that the key there is is really building a model that's, as automated as it can be, that it is prioritized, in that it only escalates the insights that are really gonna matter and be impactful to your program. So, again, that automation is definitely critical, you know, making sure that the the system can kind of surface those opportunities for you, and then focusing on the high impact metrics, rather than monitoring everything equally. So track the the indicators, the KPIs that are really going to help you to move the needle, like rate availability, market competitiveness, leakage, travel behavior patterns, etcetera. And then I think the last thing to that would be, you know, maybe creating a structured, supplier cadence. So really building on those relationships and those partnerships that we talked about, a little bit earlier. Even if that's just a quarterly business review, if it's backed by data, you know, that's helping to keep those partnerships strong and keep suppliers accountable. And, Quentin, any any further thoughts from you on that? So for us, it's not a burden because, I mean, we it's our job, right, to manage those, relationships. What we opted sixteen fifteen almost sixteen. Fifteen years ago, which was actually, an initiative from our, CEO, was to have that global procurement, team, based in in in our headquarters that really would manage, huge hotel changes that can happen locally, for our internal challenges that happens with hotels in on our events, but also our hotel relationships. And we believe that, like I said, we obviously depend on our local markets. We depend on our local experts, and we have some in each of our, offices. But our aim, is really to maintain that dedicated central point, where we are actually supporting our teams, from everywhere. And we believe that this is the right approach when we're when you search a large also company. This is for us the most efficient and most qualitative way to bring return on investment for our hotel partners. And I really put, this was one of the article that skipped, meetings, wrote on the event that we organized a few weeks ago, which is that we I was very happy about the article. I didn't, give him anything for him to to write the article. That was very, to do whatever the hell they want. But I like the words in terms of putting the relationship first before the deal because I think the deal comes after naturally, and this is what we're trying to do. Fantastic. A great way to end, I think. Quintin, thanks so much. And and, Jennifer, thanks so much to you too. I'm afraid that's that's all we've got time for for today. So my thanks, go, of course, to to all of you for watching. Jennifer, thank you so much for for your time today and, and Quentin as well too. I'm sure we'll we'll speak to you both soon again, no doubt, and hopefully see you over at at Procurement and Supply Chain Live, one of our events, one of our many events, hopefully, next year. I'm pleased to say the the recording of, today's webinar will be available shortly. So, if you desire, you can come back and, watch it all over again. You can, of course, catch even more webinars over on the Procurement Magazine website. Just head to procurementmagazine.com. Thanks again to all of you for watching. Bye for now.