Name: Wb Deloitte Amazon Business Nov 1 (1080p) (1)
Uploaded: 2025-11-04T10:48:15.610Z
Duration: 38 min 53 s
Description: Wb Deloitte Amazon Business Nov 1 (1080p) (1)

Transcript for "Wb Deloitte Amazon Business Nov 1 (1080p) (1)": Hello, everyone, and welcome to our webinar in partnership with Amazon Business. My name is Tom Chapman, and I am the editor in chief of Supply Chain Digital and Procurement Magazine. Now today's session is entitled miss mitigating risk and resilience in health care procurement. So what exactly do we mean by that? Think of health care procurement functions that can anticipate disruption before it happens using data to identify vulnerabilities, securing critical supplies through diversification, and, crucially, building stronger partnerships to keep essential operations running even when conditions around them are unpredictable. Well, it's happening now, and it's transforming how health care organizations, and within that, we mean pharmaceutical organizations and life sciences giants think about procurement. As global supply chains face increasing pressure, the big questions and the crucial questions are, how can procurement teams build visibility, flexibility, and reliability into their supply chains without compromising care or budget efficiency? And, crucially, how can they turn uncertainty into resilience? That's exactly what we're gonna be diving into in this session. We'll look at what's happening across the health care landscape, how pharma leaders are adapting their procurement practices, leveraging data, and strengthening supply networks to ensure continuity and care quality. Ultimately, this is what we're gonna be looking to achieve today. We're gonna be looking at how to identify and assess supply chain risks, how to build supply chain resilience, how to leverage digital tools and data, and finally, how to learn from, we'll be learning, endeavoring to learn from real world practice. So lots to get through and not too much time to do it. And now joining me today, we've got a fantastic guest from Deloitte who brings real industry expertise to the table, Catherine Thompson, head of procurement consulting at Deloitte UK. Welcome, Catherine. Catherine. I thank you so much for joining us today. I wanted to begin with if you could just give us a a bit of a rundown all about you, but, you know, thirty seconds on on you and your role with with Deloitte would be fantastic. Yeah. Hi, guys. Nice to meet those who haven't before. I actually have two roles that are of interest to to this call. So number one, I do lead our procurement practice at Deloitte across EMEA, Europe, Middle East, Africa. And I've been doing procurement work since 1996. And then I also leads Deloitte's life sciences and health care industry, here in The UK across all consulting. So whether it is, HR or customer facing stuff or procurement and supply chain, that's my pleasure. So that inspection of procurement and and life sciences is a particular passion. Fantastic. I think it's probably fair to say that, Catherine, that you're pretty pretty well positioned to answer some of the questions we've we've got coming up for you today. As I say, limited amount of time to, to go through everything. So, I mean, if you don't mind, Catherine, let's let's plunge straight into it. You know, we're obviously we're obviously living in, you know, interesting times, you know, volatile times, I think, is probably probably fair to say for for various reasons we'll no doubt get into. How, just kicking off the conversation, can, pharmaceutical life sciences leaders identify and manage procurement risks more effectively from your perspective? Yeah. So you are geopolitical instability is is is with us. And before then, of course, we'd already flexed our resilience muscles a little bit through COVID and a bunch of black swan things that have been hitting us through the the the twenty twenties. The key to solving or well, solving is probably, let's call it overambitious. Right? But we can put get ourselves resilient and prepared and put ourselves in a position of flexibility. And that is, for better or worse, going to mean data, and having access to data, the right data, and then the talents to be able to do something with it. So we've got a bit of a two sided, equation here. On the data, what we wanna be doing is looking at where our supply chain risks are. So having a view of your supply chain and where the different pain and pressure points along it are is is critical. So step one is definitely map out those those supply routes, and then where your points of of fragility are or exposure might be. And that will either be something that could be geopolitical. It could be if you've got too much concentration. So we saw a bunch of different strategies get employed. First, we we got, as I said, quite hot on it in COVID where we saw some companies double down and even do vertical integration along their supply chain to try and mitigate risk. And other companies really take the opposite approach and diversify and say, well, I'm gonna buy from lots of different places. In the end, we probably will do choose what's right based on where we are and where we need to get things to different manufacturing or or lab sites or sales sites, and then also marry that with a category view. So that says for a given thing like lab supplies, I can probably easily replace. So my reagents may be trickier. Service, things that would could go onto a frontline for some of our service based organizations. Obviously, there needs to be health and safety checks and quality checks that go alongside as well that are there. So depending on the category, it lets us know what what sort of flexibility options we have to. That's part one is visibility of the supply chain, put a category lens on it, play lens on geography and where things need to be, assess whether I wanna concentrate or diversify my supply. And then the other side is having the talent to do it. So one thing we've seen, especially with the rise of AI, is as we can roll out cool stuff, and a lot of the tech now is is really exciting. Right? We didn't have it's hard not to say such fun toys, frankly, but such fun toys to play with for forever. And we've been putting on these wonderful systems in a different places without the right mindsets to then take advantage of those. We've we have seen folk hit hit walls, to be honest. So helping out our teams to know what to do when you have this visibility and and choice and and ability to flex or or lock, is is something that we're trying to do to help firms become more resilient right now too. Fantastic. Actually, in in hindsight, maybe what I should have asked you first, which I had lined up lined up next was, what what big what major vulnerability? Some of these will, of course, would, of course, be relatively obvious to our audience. But from your from your experience in working with these, you know, large pharmaceutical companies, life sciences companies, what what are the big vulnerabilities in the supply chain that is really really impacting them at the moment? And it's really the changing legislative landscape is is pretty unprecedented, I would say. So we did have before, like, as I said, things like COVID, like, sanctions coming in. So certain countries, we we wouldn't wanna necessarily able to buy from in in certain businesses as well came came and went. But this sort of tariffs are here or not here, and and, where we're gonna deal with things is is hard. Right? And it and it it's changing fast, and we have to follow political winds as well as economic ones, for some of our our clients. Again, the only antidote is gonna be this is is information that lets us then move. Right? So when you're we were we were never gonna be able to guess particularly at the moment, right, what what might be coming up. I don't I don't think any well, there's enough speculation in in the press, right, about what might be knowing it is isn't a thing. The best we can do is have the datasets available that let us change when we need to. So definitely resilience that and what what we've had to do, a lot more of my projects, their tech supply chain programs where normally we were looking at what is the supply route and where are the, different handoffs and and change. We have people from Deloitte Tax joining these calls and meetings a lot more now. So we have much more view of not just physical, restrictions or but also what's happening with taxes and tariffs today, or what do we think might happen. Things like government portals as well. Right? It's not there's many countries doing different things that are impacting where we where we buy and sell and how we buy and sell. So I'm trying to remember what your original question was now and make sure I've all It the just the the big vulnerabilities really that that you're seeing in the company space. Is this changing changing legislative environment. Right? Fiscal fiscal changes as well. And therefore, the antidotes to it is is this visibility and having we're gonna you need to get these tax financial advisers in alongside traditional logistics. You know? In in life sciences, we have lots of things must be shipped at certain refrigeration temperatures, things like that. Now alongside it, the the same data pump that's assessing physical movement is is also having to do a digital twin of of financial implications. Mhmm. Absolutely. Challenging times, I think, then to to say the least. Now I think we could probably be here all day discussing this, or rather if we knew the answer, you know, it would solve a lot of problems. But what from your perspective, you know, in in today's, as I say, volatile environment does a truly resilient, let's say, pharmaceutical supply chain look like? What's so number one, it's one where we've identified the the map where those different supply chain elements are. We've got smart around different product categories, how acutely we wanna manage that map. And some things I've started we've we've spent a lot of time trying to get rid of the tail in procurement for for a while. And I don't know I don't know about that anymore. I think that we have to embrace the tail in some areas, and it lets us price compete. There's a bunch of different if we talk more the commoditized items for a moment, which can include lab supplies and supplies to to clinics and and health care stations as well, provided we've done some done the due diligence checks on supplies on quality standards and and health and safety. Having a a price competitive marketplace where we source those sorts of goods from and when I say source, I mean requisition, not tender every single time, but these self negotiating, self sourcing sort of marketplaces we have for commoditized goods and services is is pretty neat. And I think that builds in resilience because it gives you flexibility and options. You can always go there provided you've done those those quality checks on the suppliers. For some of the more specialist type ingredients or or or services as well. Right? So something where you wanna have been put put more thought in and and we have stronger dependencies that would be, harder to flip out of. The only thing then to do is well, as I said, some of our clients do are doing vertical integration, which is a pretty pretty extreme version. But, otherwise, there's it's good old fashioned supplier relationship management, isn't it? We we work with our suppliers, and we work together through risks, bringing in we've got much more. And it doesn't have to be a systemized answer on this one, but the more regular supplier relationship management, monitoring, shared governance across a supply chain is gonna put people in better shape to be resilient for all the different changes that are coming now. Mhmm. Transparency is always gonna be a hassle. Right? Yeah. Of course. Yeah. Absolutely. I think that that word is is certainly, always gonna come up and will perhaps can come up again, in the remainder of our conversation. I wanna talk to you if that's okay, just sort of in a bit more depth about scenario planning. You know? Are you seeing that on the ground? Is that is that increasingly coming into the equation, you know, in in a bid to prepare, I suppose, for those, sometimes mystery future disruptions? Yeah. For some area, for critical for critical cost of goods. Yes. Absolutely. Anything. And also in life sciences, sometimes we have especially with the pharmaceutical company, things being assembled or being put together at a different location. So we're shipping and also inbound and outbound having to do combinations of ingredients or machines for some of our medtech clients in in different locations. So that digital twin for where our supply inbound and outbound is going is absolutely one of the main things that we see ourselves working with clients on. And as I said, that that not just a physical digital twin, but as well now starting to model out different potential financial scenarios is is something that we're seeing more of. For the more traditional sort of indirect procurement, which would be common regardless of industry, right, whether you're in life sciences or or health care or consumer products, even consumer health, right, is important for us too now. That sort of mainstay of indirect spend, the IT, the fixtures, furniture, and so on. I think building yourself flexibility, a different type of transparency that lets you choose between safe suppliers is is is a more common sort of route. We don't have to do digital twinning for those sorts of things where we have choice. I think the digital twinning is important when we're when we have risk along a supply chain, not just at the at the point of purchase. So different things could happen to things that are important to us as they're being taken in and distributed out. Mhmm. We hear just following on from that, I suppose, we we hear a lot, or certainly we write a lot about, on procurement magazine, supply chain digital, manufacturing digital as well about us about supply diversification. How then, you know, as a as a sort of a, I suppose, a solution to some of the problems we've seen in in recent years, but how can procurement teams diversify and strengthen their supply networks without sacrificing efficiency along the way? I think that is never easier than now. So if I talk more about the things where we could we could have influence and it's not just, commodity type items. There's well professional services call it or be I marketing services, things like that. Before we used to always try and get rid of the tail because we're worried and even some clients now are worried about supplier onboarding costs, time to onboard a supplier. You hear all the time, six months to get a supplier set up on our system before we can even transact another three, six months to to contract. That's not best in class. I mean, probably, obviously. Well, we can there's there's a there's a bunch of different antidotes to this. I don't think, as I said before, you need to kill the tail anymore because I think you can make the tail much more painless. So if I talk without wanting to list too many specific software vendors, the the the likes of the, the Axioms, they are designed to remove friction in that in that tail and make you not have to experience that. So because we can onboard with a trusted intermediary that has AI driven solutions that lets it help find different suppliers and or different items that might meet the needs that you ask, We don't have to worry as much about killing the tail because if you are the buying organization, that tail won't exist for you per se in your internal ERP type systems. But even our supplier management systems, if we can be clean and and intentional about the way we have our onboarding route and our supplier risk management route, we don't have to be doing health and safety checks for a consulting firm, for example. So I think too many people did a one size fits all. There was a a mandate to simplify systems, and it came at the expense of having systems support reality. So I think when people were putting in some of these third party risk management, supplier onboarding, supplier management, Spire Data Systems, The manager became, you know, stick to standard. It's really hard to configure SAP, Oracle, whatever it is. It's hard to set up there for stick to standard, and and people have to change around it. And, of course, people just buck the system, and and things take longer, and and it doesn't really work. A lot of the different AI and Gen AI and orchestration tools we have now let us mold around humans so we don't have to fit to Santa. We can fit to you. And still we comply with policies and risk legislation, all this good stuff because we can build it into the system. It makes it a bit harder to set up the original system in terms of policies, but the data the way the data works now is much more flexible and can work off more organic sort of policy type documents than things being hard coded. There's much more interpretation in the system, which admittedly can come with some risks. So we wanna be proportionate and and get intentional about where we use these different texts. But the the kill the tail isn't needed anymore. We can build resilience by having a broad range of supplies subject to the category and let the systems take the friction out. We need to set the systems up to that, but it is a option we have now. And some of the different marketplace aggregators that are there in conjunction with a a smart orchestration type tool that lets you to know when you need to onboard or when you can use a preferred vendor already or a marketplace type solution is where I've seen companies definitely making efficiencies and make protecting themselves against different changes in currencies and and shipping costs and all different stuff that I have. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. I'm glad you meant you meant you, mentioned AI, gen AI, and and kind of brought that into the into the conversation, which I suppose was was inevitable, really, let's be honest. Just on a on a broad level, you know, to what extent are digital tools now becoming crucial to to enhancing, supply chain resilience in in in the area, of course, of of business that you that you look after? I mean, Arguably, you could would for sure, you could still do without them. Right? So literally crucial, probably not, except that your company is gonna have way higher operating costs than your competitors. So you could still do it manual, and and I have clients that are still, implementing some basic stuff. Right? And and it's hard to watch because you can see the leaders, the rates that they can operate at now, the decision making, speed is so much faster. And it's what I think it is, it's the little microservices as well that we can jump ahead in now already in procurement. So we have things simple things like, compact comparison. In AI, and there's really simple and cheap and easy tool available that let people compare your current, MSA with a new SOW that's brought in and says, is my SOW compliant with an MSA? Now normal human, you're going through those and you read screens, you know, you have your two screens or paper hopefully not paper, but your two screens comparing these different contracts, the MSA and the SW, and you're taking notes. I we've done some benchmarking. We're working this about four hours every time you do that sort of thing on average. Right? Some contracts, maybe you could do in a couple of hours. Some are gonna take days probably. So let's call it on average four hours. Your competitors or peers are for sure there's AI tools available where I click and I compare, and it's not just a word document compare where the formatting has changed or punctuation has changed, like semantic, actual, real differences in meaning, and the AI is summarizing and making recommendations on where to change. Now you can still do it the manual way, so it's not crucial. You can go through your to do list doing the hard work, but your competitors, your peers are are using AI, and they're gonna be done way faster. And so they've done their contract comparison, the first review in literally seconds, then they need to do something about it and decide whether to negotiate with the suppliers on. For sure, human in the loop, we're not replace well, there are fake using of course, there's automated, Gen AI negotiating tools that you might wanna use for some categories as well. Right? So you could take it quite far taking these effortful work out of the day. When these people have done and the AI has done their comparisons and they've done possibly the negotiations well, but even because they're the ones that are then going on to, right, what proactive news am I gonna make? I feel I look at my supply chain risk profile, and I see that there's an exposure here. What new supplier might I bring on board there? What we're doing work with one of our pharma companies now around, sustainable packaging. Total growth, new thinking about more environmentally sustainable, will overwrap on some of the tablets that goes out. That stuff, you can only be doing that really advanced supply chain collaboration innovation work when you've got the stuff that has to be done, the contract comparisons, the contract documents out of the way. So trying to do it without AI, Gen AI, of course, you can. But your colleagues, your the peers in the other organization are are gonna be way further ahead and be doing things that make a real difference to the whole planet. Right? With being able to sustainability goals, giving back to the types of diversification in all different ways that that would make a difference, which are arguably nice to have compared to being legally compliant. Sure. So in summary there then, you know, those who sort of are hesitant, or or perhaps neglect embracing these these all important or or perhaps game changing digital tools, AI, of course, being one of them, they they're simply they risk, I guess, being left behind. You know? They're not gonna be able to keep up. For sure though. Yeah. Mhmm. Okay. Okay. Yeah. No. It's it's it's something we've seen we've seen certainly come up again and again in in our coverage that, you know, the need to to embrace some of these these game changing, digital tools. Just focusing in, honing in perhaps, on AI that a little bit more, how how widely then are you are you seeing, its adoption in, you know, in the area that that we're obviously discussing today, you know, procurement in in life sciences and and pharmaceuticals. And perhaps have you got any examples maybe as to its, you know, successful use and successful integration? Yep. Definitely. Actually, I probably have if I and I should have filled this before. We have a CPO survey that has actual stats on, on what CPOs are saying that they're, achieving it, which I can pull up while I talk about other things if that's that would be helpful. I would have thought. Yeah. Absolutely. Sorry. I should have done that. But then the real life examples, one of the cool things, we have in, even in Deloitte. Right? We have a a little AI as a service tool that we work with. And so it's a it's like a gym membership. Companies can pay, like, the 20 k a month. They sign up, and they can access a whole bunch of agents that will do stuff like contract comparisons, rebate analysis. There's a negotiation copilot, little things like that that are simple zero barrier to entry, zero barrier to exit. You can get get started. Right? That's easy there now. I think a lot of the companies, when you've got some of the enterprise techs that Coopers, iValuers, and so on, have also got built in AI agents that either support the buying process or take information from outside. And then, of course, I guess a lot of your readers or watchers will have will have gone to digital procurement world or followed some of that. The array of different AI specialist techs is is close to uncountable, right, I think. And being able to use and I have clients that are using some of those, like the Packet and negotiating type tools and and seeing benefits. Definitely ones doing RFx generators that help again, the time comparison of I prepare my RFx and I go through and I take even if I have a a e sourcing tool, one of the more sophisticated ones, and I have a template and I have to customize it, that's so different to, you know, knock me up a new one based on this demand. And, you know, I've got this strategy document, this RFP from last time, this, category strategy document. Please draft me up to the latest RFP that would be compliant with the latest legislation. It's so much faster, and clients are definitely using it now. So we've I could go for a very long time about in different parts of the procurement cycle, the upfront category strategies, doing outsourcing, contracting, speeding up requisitions, getting people to the right place to requisition. I think the GR bit was already there's tools within our existing enterprise stuff without having to use AI, just not always used to use properly. And then the bit we're gonna start working we're still, I think, doing a bit better progress on is making it easier for our suppliers to interface with all of this. For some reason, we we leave that bit a bit later, a lot of the time. But all of that upfront bit for sure. And, of course, analytics. Right? That's whenever we do our CPO survey. That's the the main area where we get Mhmm. People saying they're using AI. Because a lot of people are using it to triangulate messy data in the simplest case. Right? Versus every now and then I mean, it's not very often now, but I know there we meet companies and clients that are still messing around with Excel and their own lookup tables and trying to do analysis that you just feel sorry for the poor person at that job. Absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely. Now while I debate whether I'm gonna be, replacing my my gym membership with a a Deloitte AI membership, Have you have you managed to, to track down any of those, big big, sort of headline statistics, Catherine? I have. I am opening it now because I was waving my arms around, and then I can't click on things and they do disappear. No problem at all. No problem at all. I don't know if, while you track those down, I don't know if there's there's just one other thing I wanted to to come on come on to in terms of AI integration. But I I suppose, actually, what I should say is AI adoption and the challenges that that come with that. You spoke of the need to to sort of keep up and ensure that, you know, you don't get left behind by by your competition. But what actually are the are the challenges that maybe procurement faces when it when it comes to that that adoption? I I would, without wishing to preempt, I don't know whether change management is a is a big one that comes into it. Yeah. Change management's been harder than I expected, to be honest on it. And I hope there's an element of what do I do with the rest of my day, for some of the areas. Right? Because if your job is contract comparisons and reviewing contracts and feeding back on contracts, and suddenly the first review is is seconds instead of hours. Sooner or later, you probably Yeah. Yes. You've got lots and lots and lots of contracts, but then what? And I think what I've what we've started to do when we're rolling out some of these tools is is look more holistically about what because we were to oh, we'll free up time for more value added activities. Not everybody if their main job is and especially some of this is landing in, different operational locations, for example, it's not always immediately obvious what's this value added thing someone would suddenly and probably it's gonna be changing the job description. Right? Which is a conversation. You can't just say to someone, well, here's a new AI tool. Free up your time. Do we we have to change job goals and job objectives and and and look up what that person's day is and what it is going to be in this this new place with all this extra brainpower working. Having an AI tool is like having an extra person work for you. Right? So if you are contract manager that's meant to be looking at or reviewing these contracts now, suddenly, it's like having an analyst there just working for you doing your first round of comparisons or spotting different stuff that you couldn't, and and you're you now are a leader, and what do you do with that extra time? So that's been the thing we've started to one is look more holistically about the the the teams and workforce in a org chart where agents are on the team now. And then what do we do with the with this extra time? That's two bits. And then the other bit we've started to do because I think some people are worried about that then is is the idea you know, well, now you're a customer service hero. Right? Because instead of the business being like, why is my contract taking so long? Why is it settled for supplier onboard? Why is the RFP not chosen yet? Why is that look how wonderful I am in the, you know, this whole customer service business partnering angle starts to be much more achievable because we have a bigger virtual team working for us. And so I think that is the lens we've started to take more is, holistic job view alongside customer service enhanced. Because I think a lot of our procurement teams already look at business partner and customer service, but but much, much more and try and create value heroes around the place. I have my staff, by the way. Fantastic. I could share screen, but as I said, well, 96% of CPOs consider Gen AI strategic priority within the next twelve months. This is from the last CPO survey that we did at Deloitte. So 96% considered it a priority, but only 47% had started their Gen AI pilots, so, like, half. And of that, only 9% were really using it at the time we did this on the survey. Mhmm. Probably a delight that especially the projects I'm running, we because it feels every every client, 95 out of a 100 of that my client are deaf are doing GenAI. And AI and something pretty cool with it as well and operationally. I say, orchestration is probably the most popular thing right now we're doing. Mhmm. But, obviously, the rest of the world, there's a bits that are maybe still piloting, we'll we'll call it. They're actually not leading in really doing it. It is there. Absolutely. You the the 40 I think it was 47% statistic you mentioned there that those who've actually, the was it? Absolutely. Absolutely. What's you know, that other 53%, what what's holding them back? Is it is it the kind of the process of getting that buy in from from stakeholders? That's part of it. So I think what happens when you do look at doing Gen AI or AI, you've sort of got your four four roots that you can make stuff avoid. Number one, you can wait for your enterprise tech to do to to have AI. So your Coobers, your Aribas, your I value, whatever it is that you've got, They've all got AI roadmaps, and they've already got some stuff that's available. I think some CPOs so the 96% wanna do it, they're gonna harvest the investment they've already made, which is entirely sensible. Right? Some of my clients feel that's at a pace that's behind where they want to be and where they could be, and especially in life sciences. And I said because I need all life sciences. I see what we're doing with clinical trials and sales ops and different areas. The things we're doing with Gen AI in those sort of spaces to speed up drug discovery, research, getting product market is so advanced. And then if you come back to procurement and the best we're doing is a contract comparison, we're not using what the what the tech can do. Right? So and what certainly, I think a lot of my clients in the pharmaceutical space, they can see what the clinical trials r and d type folk sales folk are doing and then look at the road map for our enterprise tech. That's one option, but it's Mhmm. There's really some aren't doing it. The second thing you can do is the best of breed type tech, so the whole DPW, you know, startup type world or or growth companies, some of them. So that's where we get the 47% that are doing the pilots. What we've seen with some of them, and some of them are fabulous technology. Right? Normally, they're targeted at a a discrete problem. Yep. We've seen a lot of companies if you have enough scale in that problem, happy days, and they're probably the 9% that go on and live happily ever after, quite a lot of our companies have had difficulty getting past. You do a free POC or a free pilot, and then the budget for the next bid is is difficult to swallow. IT sometimes appear and say, well, this isn't SAP or Oracle or Salesforce or whatever, and therefore, you know, we have an IT strategy and this doesn't fit. Mhmm. So that's normally where or, you know, there's real fear about some of these of starts being acquired or taken over, and then you've invested in something and then it goes a different direction. And what do I do while they're they're out of business, this sort of thing. So I think a lot of slowdown happens. The second reason I've slowed down is is my best of breed pilot doesn't pan out at the way I hoped. The third thing you can do in procurement is do custom development. So most big organizations now have an AI or Gen AI team somewhere within the company. And so you can go along those procurement and say, I also here's my great use case. I wanna benefit from AI. You will probably fall behind r and d and clinical trials and customer service and sales launch and product launch and product development and all this stuff, and procurement will be somewhere down here. So that's, again, where we see the drop off from 96% interested, only 47% pilot, 9% success. It'll be because my enterprise stuff is too slow. My couldn't get budget or IT approval. The internal ones couldn't work with me. So, otherwise, then you can do the different, like I said, cheap and cheap as a service options, which won't give you a whole landscape, but it'll at least get you started and and beyond the pilot probably type of thing is. But it will be not a full landscape. It would be something complimentary to an existing path. So that's, I think, where we I know where we see the drop offs, from the Absolutely. Town. Great. No. It's a brilliant summary, Catherine. No. Those those four steps are are really helpful and gonna be really helpful, I'm sure, for for our audience. Now that's pretty much all I wanted to get through. We do have a couple of, presubmitted questions from our audience. I think I'll have just about time to to get to one of them. I wanna I wanna present present you with this one. So with with budgets under constant pressure, how can procurement teams make the case for investing in resilience measures such as dual sourcing or safety? So safety stock, if I can get my words out. How would you how do you wanna tackle that one, Catherine? Well, there'd be different business cases. I think for either one, sometimes we're getting treasury teams involved if we're looking at stock management and and cost of cash, right, and what it has means to have working capital as inventory stock versus cash items. And it would need to be a trade off with customer service, obviously. I think where we get if we'd have to separate health care from pharma or companies that once we're in the realm of service and and patient care, and particularly, like, some of my clients are working things like dialysis machine machines where if if the stuff isn't there on the day, it goes goes badly. Right? Hospitals, of course, are are bad as well. I think there we have to prioritize security of supply and the business case around anything that is that is beyond having the the product in the room while the patient needs it is is a bit careless, really. So the business case there and I've never seen any of the service orientated clinic sort of companies I work with have trouble making a business case for security of supplier because it's just not the cost is is is unbearable. On the other side, the more product based companies, especially when we're in consumer health, so a lot if we talk life sciences, health care in this broader sense, you know, we've got stuff like, you know, toothpaste in this in this category, probably less critical, to get out there. They'll kill me for saying that, but, you know, there's there's some of these things that aren't no one dies. They just have bad teeth or they buy another brand. So when when it's this sort of trade off, that's, I think, when we can do more cost modeling type approach to it that says, what's the value of my stock versus an inventory management type system. Those ones are with the digital twins for that type of analysis are pretty freely available, and the and the business case template is well trodden path, I think. So that one, I think, is good old fashioned supply chain. What's the how critical is the need to be in the market versus versus the cost? That one's not a bad trade off, I think, or a new thing. All we have to add is a bit more tariff risk that we didn't have as prevalent in our scenario analysis before, I think. Absolutely. Catherine, it's a great answer. I'm afraid that that is all we've got time for, for today. Thank you so much for joining us. I'm aware that you're pretty fresh from from landing back, back in these parts from a from a flight to New York, so your time is is appreciated. Thank you so much for for joining us. I'm sure we'll speak again, very soon. Now for our audience, the the recording of the webinar will be available, shortly. So if you so please, you can come back and watch it again. But, finally, thanks again to, to Catherine. Thanks again to you all for watching. Very good bye for now.