Name: The Women in FinTech Webinar
Uploaded: 2026-01-27T16:16:09.900Z
Duration: 1 h 8 s
Description: The Women in FinTech Webinar

Transcript for "The Women in FinTech Webinar": Hello, everyone, and a very warm welcome to today's session. I'm Ella Wilkinson, director of BizQuick Studio, and I'm delighted to host this very special webinar. The Women in FinTech webinar presented by FinTech Magazine in associate of Intuit QuickBooks. Today, we aren't just talking about representation. We are celebrating gender representation and female empowerment to transform the DNA of FinTech to create a more diverse professional ecosystem. We are joined by two incredible leaders at the forefront of this evolution. Please welcome Cecilia Thomas from Euronet money transfer segment and Christine Reischel from Rapid. Together, we'll be exploring the lived career journeys of our speakers from navigating leadership pivots to breaking through barriers. Whether you are a rising talent, an established executive, or an ally looking to drive systematic change, there is a wealth of insight ahead. Before we dive into our discussion, I've given you both a very, very quick introduction there. I would love if you could give us more of an introduction. Tell us who you are, what you do and how you kind of got to where you are. Cecilia, if I throw to you first. Sure. So I'm Cecilia Thames. I'm the Chief Strategy Officer and Head of Data Science for Euronet's Money Transfer segment. How I started? I spent twenty two years in fintech this March, and I actually didn't study either finance or technology. I studied languages. But fresh out of school, I started at a five person startup called Lexi dot com. And through that, I just had an opportunity to participate in that through its growth and acquisition by Euronet about 2015. So Euronet is a global payments company. Operates in about 200 countries through brands like Ria, XC and Dandelion. And in the last decade, I focused a lot on the intersection between strategy and AI transformation. So it's another frontier where women are really driving amazing, amazing work there. So thank you for having me today. Oh, well, you so much for joining us. I'm really interested that you did languages and then kind of found yourself in the financial space. Have you found that your language skills have helped in those boardroom conversations? They certainly helped me in my career to develop my communication skills. So really understanding the meaning of language, how you communicate and how you build an argument. So it's been, it certainly has been really helpful for my career. And fintech is its own language, isn't it? Yeah, exactly. Oh, well, thank you so much for joining us. And Chris, obviously, tell us about your background. You've also got a very illustrious career. Yes. So I've had many, many pivots in my career. Actually. At the moment I am a senior director at Rapid, and I kind of oversee a team of product marketers and also sort of our partner marketing program that we have. Rapid is actually a global fintech, so we have focused on building out sort of a global network all over the world, connecting a lot of different ways to take payments. We're a card acquirer. And then also a network for sending payments. So we send payments globally as well. So we essentially help our customers kind of accept payments however they want, whether it's in person or in a store, online, through marketplaces, you know, however they're accepting payments, and then send payments to suppliers or end users, or just move funds in their various accounts and whatnot. So we're behind the scenes moving funds all over the world. Did go ahead. Sorry. I was going say, did you also expect to end up in fintech companies? Or did you Absolutely not. No. So I had a very different start with my career. I'm from Colorado. I live in London at the moment, but I'm from Colorado. And I actually started my career as like a ski instructor and climbing guide. I was very, very much into the outdoors. And over time, was like, you know, I think there's other skill sets that I want to sharpen here. And I ended up studying computer science. And so that was sort of my introduction into the business world. Did a lot of software engineering. And over time I just started to sort of recognize certain patterns that I had. I wasn't necessarily, my strength was not sitting in a room coding by myself. Know, gravitated towards collaboration and working with customers a little bit more directly to understand what they wanted us to build, you know, us as the software engineers. And so that's kind of how I slowly made my way towards FinTech was through that sort of customer understanding. And with FinTech, there is so much customization that you can do. And when you understand the customer really well, there's a lot of really fun things you can deliver from a FinTech perspective. Well, you so much for joining us. Again, a very communicative, you know, avenue into fintech, really. Yes. Yeah. So let's let's just kick off with our first discussion then, and that's career growth and leadership. But let's set the scene first. So it's obviously no secret that, like, the finance industry is really male dominated. How do we actually, you know, women in the in the door at that at the offset? Yeah, I mean, I think Go ahead, Cecilia. Go ahead. We're going to be too polite, aren't we? You've done this off. Speaking of women in fintech. You've got the camera person, so go ahead. Oh, Okay. I can see everyone at once, so it's hard to tell. Yeah, I mean, as a computer software engineer, like how I started, I mean, my goodness, I was one woman on a team of all men, right? So I think computer programming has obviously changed over the last many years. There's a lot more women software engineers out there. But fintech was the same for me. You know, I started off in a very primarily male dominated area. So how do we get more women? I think for me personally, when I actually look back at my career, a lot of the big pivots I made were from other, you know, women mentors and managers or whatnot. So there may be a few of us in the space, but I think we're mighty. And so attracting more women is just honestly, I think being open, open minded, being supportive. I would say that to a male or female audience. I think just being respectful and open and willing to work with people and support them in their career choices. So Cecilia, go ahead. I think it starts with visibility. So I was the first woman at Etsy. Was an interesting experience to go in. Yeah, we were we were five, five people at the beginning. Yes, four dudes And, and but throughout my career, it's been interesting, whenever I do public speaking, I've had young women come up to me and say, you know, it's really great to see a woman in leadership. It's and I think having that visibility and showing women that that is an opportunity and normalising women in leadership and in FinTech, I think is a really important part of encouraging women to enter. I think also creating opportunities. So when you see young talent, young women, making sure that you are part of the solution of encouraging women to be in the industry, creating those opportunities, creating mentorship and teaching young people to be authentic, and to encourage them to get past the intimidation of entering spaces that they feel like maybe they don't belong in. So I think mentorship is really important. But I think, you know, part of that, the importance of mentorship is really a mental, teaching women that they can overcome that intimidation, that they can lean in as Sheryl Sandberg said, lean in and push yourself to be entering spaces that perhaps you may not feel comfortable in. And I think it's also, I think to that point, it's also important for us all to take a good look at ourselves. And, you know, are you limiting yourself? Are you actually the one responsible for those limitations? Or is this, a cultural limitation? Or is it an industry limitation? And being creative on how to overcome those limitations. So for me personally, I think I've had a lot of success with just being very curious, really wanting to understand how things work and understanding the details and understanding how to solve customer problems or whatever the case may be. So that goes a long way, just not really thinking about whether I'm a man or a woman but just, you know, am I curious and what can I start learning about and what could I get into that would be fulfilling for me personally? So but it is also, I think, very important to see people like yourself in the industry. Know, if there's no one like yourself in the industry, you know, it does feel a bit more intimidating, no question. So it's nice to see a lot more women in fintech. I've also found that, like, throughout my career working with predominantly men as well, even though I haven't been working in fintech, I've been working mostly in marketing, which is really unusual for marketing. But women are much more humble, in that we we don't need to pretend that we know everything. We'll walk into a meeting and we'll really understand the brief before we walk away, whereas I find a lot a lot of men can sometimes be quite like gung ho about it, and they'll just say, excellent, got it and then do it wrong. And I that's a blanket statement. Obviously, I don't mean every month, but I was maybe like, how do you think that that helps women in this industry, particularly in the financial industry? I don't. Think it's a combination. It may be humble, but I think it's also courage. And I think some I have, you know, when I was young, I would find myself in rooms and feel like maybe I thought I knew the answer, but I didn't have the courage to say the answer because I was intimidated by the room. I think as I got into more senior rooms, I think that became more and more of a thing. So I think some of that is really just in my experience, I've gotten older, realising that I do know my business, I do understand and what I have to say is relevant. But that also has, I've had validation as well, where people have expressed that my voice is important. And so that's why it's important as well, to make sure that you're giving that encouragement to young people in general. I think there's a younger generation of men and women, I think, also sometimes struggle to find their voice. And I think and I think sometimes it's it's it's a bit of a courage thing as well. So we've you obviously both mentioned mentors there. So in your careers, you must have both had some great mentors who kind of changed the trajectory of where you were going with your career. So Cecilia, you're on my screen now. Have you have you had any, like, pivotal mentors in your career? I've had amazing mentors in my career, some of them from internal of the company where I was working at, some people external from the company that I was working at. And so, you know, Stephen Dangler, Barrick Farmer, founders of Ecxi were amazing, in part because we were a really small company, and they just gave me so much responsibility that at the time, would think, wow, like, they're asking me to do this much. And they trusted me with that responsibility. And they gave me things that even sometimes I thought was, you know, bigger than I could handle. And they taught me that I could handle it. So they were also amazing mentors from a technology perspective, they really taught me to think about problem solving through technology. And that was really great. But then outside of of XE, I had two other really amazing mentors, one of them, Dean Cook, which he was my personal trainer, but he had actually been an advertising executive in a previous life. And so he really gave me a lot of advice, not just from a career perspective, but also from a mental health and, you know, well-being perspective. He was a great life coach, and then Andrew Bridge, who that one was a really interesting one, because there are programmes out there that will connect young people to mentors. So I was a member of the American Marketing Association, and they had a mentorship programme where they would pair you up with a senior member in the industry. And I think those are really, really important, because you will have access to people that aren't just in your company, but you'll have access to people that have that senior level talent and can really give you amazing advice. Brilliant. Kristen, have you had any amazing mentors in your career as well? Yes, I have. And I think one point I wanted to make about mentors in general is mentors, I mean, I think Cecilia, you talked about your trainer. I've had sort of a variety of mentors, you know, some very formal mentoring programs that, you know, maybe a company I worked for, they've set this up and it's, you know, very formal. But I've also found a lot of mentorship through just people I had shared interests with. And it turned out that, you know, looking back in retrospect, they were, made such an impact on my career. And at the time, did I call them a mentor? Not necessarily, but really they made a big influence in my life. So I think mentors can be found in a lot of different places. So it's more of just having an open mind and learning lessons from a variety of people. And then also there are a lot of really talented coaches out there. If you're So not finding mentorship at your company or, you know, at meetups that you're doing, you know, it is worthwhile to hire a coach and shop around. You know, not all coaches are great and talented. Some are definitely better than others. But it just pays off so much to just take a step back and kind of take a hard look at how you're doing things and how you want to change things. Because sometimes when you're in the middle of things, it's hard to see where to grow. And one thing I wanted to make a comment about what we were just discussing and, you know, I think Ella, you made the point how you've worked with men, or you know, women, you know, people of all kinds can make the same mistake where they say, sure, sure, I understand what we're supposed to do. And then they don't do it, right? I think one lesson that I've learned, and I, you know, just sharing this because if there are people that are just starting their careers, it's really important to realize you know a lot more than you realize. I have found that over and over. And especially recently, I mean, guess I'm getting along in my career, so I am quite experienced at this point. But I've surprised myself where I realized, oh gosh, I just assumed that this person knew more than me. And actually it turns out, gosh, you know, I've been in this industry for a long time. I actually maybe knew more than they did and knew what the right answer was rather than just assuming everyone around you may know more than you. So I think that's, you know, one thing that I could share with certainly younger folks starting off their career. You you probably know more than you realize. So having that confidence goes a long way. Again, it's a confidence barrier, really. Yeah. Is. Being sure of yourself. Yes. What is one moment that sticks out in your head as that, like, pivotal moment a mentor has really, really changed your life or your career? I would say, you know, every stage of your career requires different skills. And, you know, when you first become a manager, you have to learn to give away the things that you do. And you have to have the courage and the confidence to say, I'm gonna move on to the next thing. And I think one the big challenges when you become a first time manager is that you're about to endeavour on a journey that's scary, where you're going to do something new. And you're doing something that you're really good at. And it takes a lot of courage to let go of the thing you're really good at and delegate it and coach somebody to do that. And then to then move on to something a little bit unknown. And that was one of the pivotal moment for me was really taking a really powerful leadership course that took me through that journey and taught me that it was okay to let go of things and to take risks. But as you get older in your career, you go from manager, which is getting things done to director, which is thinking more strategically, and suddenly you have to change the way you approach leadership because it's not just about getting things done. It's about coaching people to get things done and coaching managers through the journey you just went through. And then, you know, next step from that, when you become an executive, nobody takes you aside. And so this is what it means to be an executive, you kind of have to figure it out. And you spend all your career looking at this North Star. And then when you're there, you think, so what? What is this new thing? And really, to become an executive, it's really getting out of the weeds and becoming strategic and looking forward. And then most of my time has been focused on people, and coaching people and teaching people and developing their careers and developing their their path. So at every stage of my career, it's been a different kind of transition. It's been a different kind of skill set that you really have to evolve and really along that journey, the more senior you become, the more people you have to help. And I think that's a really interesting journey. I think the best leaders are generous with their time and their guidance and will embrace failure and mistakes as part of the learning journey. And to Kristen's point, you know, the possibility of being wrong or saying something, the fear of saying something when you're in a room is that you might be wrong. But if you embrace the possibility that you're going to put something out there, and it might be wrong, but you might have a good dialogue, it's not about being perfect. It's about dialogue and creating something better together. And I think that's a really great outcome because then it takes the edge off of having to have courage to say something in a room. I think that was really Yeah, love that. And I think that's a really nice point too, Cecilia, is some of us strive for perfection and it's a lot better to just get pretty close, right, and iterate. Know, maybe you get it wrong. Maybe you're completely wrong and you need to start over. But rather than taking that extra time to get it just perfect in your mind, you know, just get it close and then you can improve And and I think for me some big lessons that I've learned from transitioning from being an individual contributor to managing people is having a good support system around you and having, you know, depending on how deep the organization is that you're working for, you know, ensuring that the people, your manager, or if you're reporting directly to an executive, or if you're an executive, that you do have the support for when things go wrong and for when you do fail. Because you will, you know, we all make mistakes, every single one of us. So when you make that transition and you let some of those things go that you were doing and you realize, oh, I should not have let those things go. I still need to do those things and these other things. You know, you learn on the job, right? All of us do. When you have a good support system, can make or break, you know, that transition. And I've had both. I've had, you know, wonderful leadership above me where it didn't, you know, it was okay that maybe I didn't get it right or oh, weren't quite aligned in this new role that I was taking on and okay, now I know exactly what we need to do here versus when I didn't have good support, you know, it just makes the job a lot harder. And you're just guessing, you know. So I think having that good support system may not always have it, but it is invaluable when you do. And then also kind of, again, taking that inventory of what your job is today because it is very different when you start to manage people. It's like Cecilia, I loved what you said, how it's really more about growing others, which I love to do. It's so satisfying to do that. But that does mean you have to let things go and you have to delegate and that can be hard for some of us, myself included. And let other people fail, right? Of That's course the hard part. Yeah. I think the hard part is letting other people fail. Yeah. And that is about developing a mindset that says, yeah, you know, wisdom isn't learned, it's earned. And you can tell people, but they really have to experience those mistakes themselves in order to really learn. And if you don't ever give them the space to fail, you're never going to give them that opportunity to learn. And they're going to be even more afraid of making mistakes. Right? I'm lucky in that, because I'm leading data science, we're really trying to take a scientific approach, which is everything is an experiment. You know, everything you may not get it right the first time, but you're going to learn something and then you're going to develop a better solution or a better way of doing it. So it's a really healthy way of changing that mindset from fear of failure to really optimisation. So talking of experiments, I'm going to move us on. There was a study done at the University of Exeter in 2005, and it was called the Glass Cliff Study, and it found that women who break through the glass ceiling most frequently break through the glass ceiling when there's a crisis happening. So they are put they are appointed as leaders on the brink of crisis. And there's a very pessimistic view that it's because when they inevitably fail, a man will come in and sweep it and save the day. Or there's a very optimistic view that's which I imagine you two both have because you're both women in senior leadership who, and the optimistic view is that, actually, it's because we're good in a crisis. It's because women can deal with a crisis. So why like, which which side do you lean towards in that study, and why do you think that is? Cecilia, you're on my screen right now. So I'm going to throw it to you. So I mean, I don't know enough about the study to really understand why it happens. But I am on the optimistic side of it, and more in terms of the outcome of it, which is, for whatever reason, you're being given an opportunity to lead. And, know, that, I think, embracing that opportunity and showing that you can lead, I think is really where the focus needs to be. And so for me, of to what Kristin said, you know, looking for problems and then solving them creatively and having a curious mind. Don't, I think for me, it's about not waiting for somebody to give you an opportunity to lead. But instead always looking for opportunities to lead leadership is not given. It's, it's, it's a role that you take, even when you don't have the authority, you have the opportunity to exercise leadership. And so I think if those situations do happen, I think it's really about looking at those as opportunities to be able to drive. If you make a mistake or if it doesn't turn out, seeing that as an opportunity for growth and learning and becoming stronger because of that experience. I like that a lot actually, Cecilia. I think that really speaks to me because I think that that's often the case. And I think looking back on my career I can see how these pivots took place. And it's always easier to look back and, you know, understand later on possibly why things happened. But looking for those opportunities and taking advantage of them, especially when you're starting out your career, I think you have usually a little bit more free time than, you know, when you're at an executive level. Your time is precious and limited. But when you're starting off, you have more flexibility. You can work with different groups. And if you want to learn about something else, set up time with that person. Find those engineers. Find the data scientists like Cecilia. Find the people that are training the AI models. If you're interested in AI, set up a meeting and have, you know, create a collaboration or a project for yourself to learn from. And it's kind of through those experiments that you can kind of create new roles or maybe there is something that you see that is needed that no one else is doing. And like Cecilia said, it's not always just given to you. Not everyone has such amazing visibility. Sometimes you need to find it. And you may not see it right away. Sometimes you just have to meet a lot of different people, go to different departments, you know, have little side projects that you have. But over time, you know, I do think one of these side things can be quite meaningful and grow into something bigger. Brilliant. So this question kind of leads on from that, but also I don't really know to word it for you right now. Do you do you see, I guess, hiring decisions as the soft skills versus the hard skills, or is it actually just the right person for the right job? I'll start with you, Kristen, because you're on my screen. Okay. I wish I could see what you see. Yeah. You know, it varies. So I have a couple of thoughts. I think soft skills go a long way. I think you could have the most perfectly trained, the best, you know, they went to the best school and they're the best whatever it is that you're after. But if they can't be a team player, if they can't have a conversation with the rest of the team, it's going to be hard, right? I mean, of course, there are certain roles you need to hire and you need a very specific skill set. But in general, I think you need to have people that can work with others and get along with others. It sounds really silly to say that, but it's actually quite true if you have personalities that are not getting along. You know, it affects the whole team. You have one person who's not working well with the rest of the team. It changes everything. So I think soft skills are incredibly important. And one thing actually that I look for when I'm hiring new people is people with patience. I think, yes, I've had a lot of pivots in my career. Yes, I've done a lot of different things in my career. But I don't switch companies every year. I don't switch, you know, I think it takes time to learn. I think you have to have patience with whatever role you're in. Obviously, if you're unhappy, you've got to move on. I'm not saying, you know, stick it out no matter what. I definitely am not saying that. But it takes time to learn, right, and to get good at something. So when I'm hiring for a new role, if I see a resume where someone's changed every year, I pass every time because I really invest in my people. I want to see them grow. I want them to succeed. So to spend a lot of time with someone knowing they're just going to move on to the next big thing, you know, it's hard to kind of dedicate yourself and devote time into someone that's just moving on. So it's a balance. You need people with, you know, the skill you're after. But having someone that gets along with others and then someone that has the patience and desire, you know, to get good at something too. So you can comfortably invest your time in that person. That's Within a team, you have fountains and drains really, don't you? And then if you have even one drain, everyone eventually gets Oh my gosh. And they're circling the drain. Yeah. Yeah. It's amazing how disruptive one person can be in a big team, actually. It really is. So that soft skill is critical. I think to your point, Kristen, think the hard skills and the soft skills are both really important. And you can't have one without the other. You can't be part of a team or lead a team if you don't have the hard skills because people need to trust that you know what you're doing. But if you don't have the leadership that are lifting people up, then you're not going to get people to follow you. And so it becomes really important to understand people and navigating people is one of the most important skill sets that you can have in navigating your career. I really find that understanding what motivates people, everybody's motivated by something different. Are they motivated aspirationally, they want to achieve or are they motivated by fear and insecurity? And you're going to find those people throughout every stage of your career. And so understanding that landscape and understanding through your soft skills, how to engage people in a way that's going to be successful. You don't always have a choice about working with people who don't have aspirational motivations. Sometimes you just have to, you know, deal with it with grit, but understanding what motivates them really gives you the tool set to be able to navigate the relationship and not delivery successfully. So I think soft your hard skills is gonna get you the job. Soft skills is gonna get you success. So I'm interested then within your own leadership, how have you kind of balanced your soft skills and your hard skills in in that you're, you know, harboring that that team that will deliver the best thing for you? If I stick with you, Cecilia, because you're on my screen. Yeah. I think, I think in my leadership style, I think it's really important to make, to Christa's point, create a safe space for risk and failure in learning. Because if you are so difficult that you can't handle people making mistakes, it's never going to be a team that learns. It's never going to be a team that progresses. So making sure that you're creating that safe space, but also making sure you're creating really strong boundaries about where your expectations are, and giving people a reason to have aspirational goals, aspirational motivations. If you're not giving people something to look forward to, they're not going to move forward. So I think a really important component is making sure that you understand, again, what motivates people. If it's fear, you know, making them feel safe. If it's aspirational, really leaning into what it is that they will get out of being part of that team and part of a successful delivery. And then the other piece is always be very goal oriented because that is how you move forward, if everybody's going in the same direction, if everybody understands the goal, the North Star and where everybody needs to be and celebrate when you get there, it reinforces that behaviour that says when we're all working together, when we all deliver on time successfully, we all get celebrated. And that's a really important part of teaching them through repetition that that is a really great approach to be in a team and to drive success. Just making sure everyone's pulling in the same direction all the time. It's important. I think more important than people realize. I think, you know, as a team, as a company, as an organization, you know, just having that clear mission is critical. I've been in many environments where it wasn't so clear and people aren't going towards the same thing. It creates a lot of chaos, a lot of confusion. Have so not about your leadership in terms of female people, but how do you go about making clear and fast decisions in a very turbulent market that we're currently in? Kristen, if I stay with you. I'm sorry. Did you say me or Cecilia? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You. Sorry. Okay. Yeah. So in terms of, you know, we're fintech here. We're fintech professionals here. So, yeah, the markets are changing all the time. There's regulations, new regulations every year, new card scheme requirements. You know, there's a lot going on in this space. So a few things that I tend to look at, so I read a lot. I subscribe to a lot of different publications. So if there are other Fintechs watching us today, I've probably been a subscriber to your newsletter and I've probably unsubscribed too. I do try to absorb a lot of information. And in terms of sort of market trends, I like to keep an eye on kind of both sides of the market. I think obviously there's the big markets, you know, the big countries of the world that, you know, dominate a lot of the markets. But I think it's actually really interesting and important to watch the small markets, the emerging markets, because I think that often is where innovation happens. It certainly happens very quickly. So we can see that, Cecilia, I think you guys are global. I mean innovation in Africa, innovation in Southeast Asia, Latin America, right? It's very fast and it's out of necessity, right? People always find a to move money. You know, we've been exchanging goods since, you know, humans started walking, right? So it's like there's always a way exchange money and people will find innovative ways to do that. So I think in terms of watching trends, you have to keep an eye on both ends of the market for sure. I think emerging markets is actually a really great analogy for women FinTech. Oh, can't wait to hear this. Yeah. Know, in emerging markets, the reason they're so innovative, especially in the payment space, is because they didn't have legacy infrastructure, right? And we're in the same business, Kristen, with Dandelion, we do a wholesale network too. We focus on emerging markets specifically. But, you know, where you don't have established rules, emerging markets have really reinvented payments and created environments that have created financial inclusion. And I think if you take that analogy for women in FinTech, women in business in general, and in leadership, you know, we have the opportunity, there are not set rules, you have the ability to reinvent those rules. And I think the key there in terms of fast decisions and dealing through working through crisis and evolving markets, is really to be strategic as opposed to being tactical. And I think that's a really important piece because if you're looking forward and you're looking at the North Star and you're understanding what it is that you're trying to achieve, focusing on the one thing that's in front of you, as opposed to the world that's changing outside of you, really isn't going to, you're going to find challenges when that thing that you're doing isn't the right thing anymore. And what might have been right at one point, but eventually when the market moves, you really have to pivot in the same way that emerging markets were. But if you don't have, if you don't have that solid structure like we do in established markets, you can be really creative and really reinvent the rules of what is the right thing to do in a new world. So really anticipating change, staying ahead of the game, understanding what problem you're trying to solve, and focusing on solving the problem, not the tactic that solves the problem, because there can be a lot of different ways to solve. And I think in times of market swings and fast decisions, it's again, embracing the possibility of failure. The more things you try, better chance you're going to get to succeed. Right? So instead of really panicking and being paralyzed analysis paralysis to make a decision, I think really key is make a decision. And if it's the wrong decision, then make another decision, try something else and really, you know, focus on evolving quickly as opposed to trying to get something perfect, because by the time something's perfect, it's no longer the right thing. Yeah, I love that. Yeah. Too many companies, you know, I've seen both ends of that spectrum. And I think when people are trying to, they have to get a perfect, you know, the software still has bugs. The software always has bugs, right? There's always, you know, code always breaks. It's just part software. So you get it pretty darn close. You're, you know, if you're transparent and you have good communication across different organizations and, you know, cross functional teams, then you'll fix it, right? You'll make it better. But get it out there, you know, let people test it and see if it works and improve. You know, I think that's a much better approach than getting it just so. I also love the optimism of, you know, women haven't really stepped into senior management that much. So, you know, let's let's kind of rock the boat. Let's let's hail a few times and try and figure it out because we can't really do anything wrong because it's not been done before. Right, exactly. So I'll bring us to our final discussion actually because we are running out of time because you guys are just so interesting. But how do you see yourself as a mentor for other women? Kristen, if I stick with you. Gosh. Yeah. I mean, I think I mean, I just I think I try to be positive, right? I try to see everyone's strengths. You know, everyone's so different. Everyone's on a different journey, has a different different background that they came from. So for me, I just, I mentioned this already, you know, I actually do invest a lot of energy into my team, you know. I want to see people succeed. I much rather have someone move on from my team and be happier and thriving, you know. Like that is the ultimate compliment to me. I actually had a woman who was on my team for a few years. She moved on to a startup and she's thriving. And I feel like personally satisfied that, you know, she's doing so well. So that's, you know, for me personally, I really enjoy having you know, improving everyone around me. Like, I want to be that positive force for all of us. Yeah. And a proud moment as well, obviously, when you see someone that you've kind of mentored grow up. Oh, there's nothing better, right? You know, to see people around you doing well and thriving. Like, it's such a fun environment to be in when you can do that for other people. Because that's happened for me, you know? So to pay that forward is ultimate compliment. Fabienne? So for me, I think we're going to be role models. When you're in a senior position, you're going to be a role model, no matter what, right? The question is, are you going be a good role model or a bad one? Because people are looking, right? I mean, for me, I've been in this business for twenty two years. And I've seen a lot of successes, I've seen a lot of learning opportunities. That's a nice way of saying failure. And, you know, I've been through that challenge, that difficulty. And so for me, mentorship is really trying to teach people the things that, that I've seen, and help make their landing a little bit softer than perhaps some of the experiences that I've had in the past. But for that, I think you really need to have vulnerability. And I think, you know, as women, we have these really high expectations of ourselves to be perfect, and we don't want people to see us as weak. And so we try to be strong. But I think, you know, part of reinventing the rules is that vulnerability is okay. Because through vulnerability, we can have authenticity and we can have honesty and say, yeah, I've struggled with confidence. Sometimes I still struggle with confidence. But the reality is that if you haven't really experienced a crisis of confidence, then it also means the other thing, which is you're not taking enough risks. You're not challenging yourself enough and putting yourself in positions where you could possibly fail. But you could also possibly win and be really successful. So teaching people that it's okay to have a shaken confidence to it's okay to be speaking in a room where you feel that maybe, you know, you can't find your voice, but you have to work through it. And teaching them that it's okay that you don't know everything. I think that's really important. And that's part of leadership is to teach, especially kids who are so afraid of failing these days, that it's okay to not be perfect. But you have to try and you have to push yourself and you have to put yourself in scary situations that are going to help you grow. And if you really are experiencing difficulty and pain and challenge, that's not a reason to have despair. It's a reason to take a step back and look at that challenge and pain and see it as an opportunity for growth. Pain is a sign of growth. It is an opportunity to learn something from that experience. And I think teaching people that that is that challenges are not a bad thing. And being scared is not a bad thing. It's an opportunity. It really kind of, I think, is an important aspect of encouraging people to try things that they otherwise might not give themselves an opportunity to do. And what do you remember in your life, right? Like when you look back on your life, what do you remember? You remember those uncomfortable moments, Those big challenges. So I think it, I love what you just said. It's actually very good to be uncomfortable because that's when you learn the way. That's what it said to me. Yeah. If you're not scared of something, then it's not worth doing. Yeah. And I always every time I go for a job interview, every time I've changed changed career path or done something, you know, public speaking that I wasn't necessarily comfortable with, it's just an opportunity to grow. And it's and it is a 100% just, you know, every single day of the learning, it's a step on the ladder of learning. So, I mean, thank you both so much. I'm I'm gonna have to skip our last question, but I am gonna I'm I'm gonna ask you one more thing, and that is give me a quick sentence of a piece of advice you would give a young woman now entering. It doesn't have to be finance. It's just a very male dominated business. And, Kristen, you're on my screen. So sorry. Okay. Next time, we all have to be in the same room together. Yeah. You have a very nice studio there, Ella. We'll have to join you. But just go for it. Just try. I think, you know, I think we've been this is a common theme throughout our discussion today. As a young person, when I was first starting out, you know, I was really intimidated and nervous and everyone around me knows more than me. That's not true. Like a lot of people don't, you know, they fake it till they make it. And so I think it's really important to just put yourself out there and give it a go. If it doesn't work out, that's Okay. Try something different. Try another company. Get a different job, right? Like, give it a go. That's my advice. I would say aim high and if you fail, try again. Know, it's not everything is going to work out the way that you plan. If you had asked me, where would I be in my career today, when I started my career, I would have never guessed that I am where I am. And part of it was that I didn't have everything planned. I didn't have a path that was really clear to me. I just went after opportunities, and I tried new things, and I failed at things, but I also won at things. And so, you know, aim high, always try and try again. If it doesn't work out the first time, it'll work out the third or the fourth time. But each step of the way is gonna make you stronger. Oh, well, thank you both so much. I'm afraid that actually has to bring us to the end because we are rapidly running out of time. Cecilia, Kristen, you have both been amazing. Thank you so much for sharing your stories with us. You can follow both of our speakers on LinkedIn. If you'd like to revisit any part of today's session or share it with a colleague, the on demand recording will be available shortly, and you can do some deep dives into the world of financial technology at fintechmagazine.com. Another huge thank you to you both, and a huge thank you to all of you for watching at home. Thank you so much. See you again later. Thank you. Thank you.