Name: Procurement Under Pressure: Managing Cost, Risk and Spend
Uploaded: 2026-05-13T15:16:10.274Z
Duration: 1 h 8 s
Description: Procurement Under Pressure: Managing Cost, Risk and Spend

Transcript for "Procurement Under Pressure: Managing Cost, Risk and Spend": Hello, everyone, and a very warm welcome to today's session. My name is Ella Wilkinson from Procurement Magazine, and I will be your host for the next forty five minutes. In a world defined by market volatility and shifting supply chains, procurement has never been more under pressure. Today, we're peeling back the curtain on what it actually looks like to transform procurement at scale. We are joined by two experts who have been in the trenches of change. But before we dive into the data and the strategy, let's meet our speakers first. We have Carolina Tarnowska from PEPCOM, who has been instrumental in leading their recent journey through procurement transformation. And joining her is Jo Katling, who brings a wealth of cross industry perspective on how organizations are rethinking their spend and supplier models. So hello, and welcome to you both. It's lovely to have you here today. Thank you for having us. So we've broken today's session into three critical pillars. The why, why Pepco decided that good enough wasn't enough anymore. The how, the gritty reality of implementing change across multiple markets, and the future, how to manage supply chain disruption over the next twelve months. We will also have a brief q and a at the end, so please drop your questions into the chat throughout the session. Any that we don't get to will be answered by the team afterwards. And, of course, there will be a poll, so keep poised for action. So to get us started, I've given you both a very, very brief introduction. But I would love if you could tell me why you're here and why you're an expert on this topic and what you see as the biggest risk or challenge in procurement today. So, Carolina, if we throw to you first. First of all, thank you very much for the invitation. It's a pleasure to be here, with you and all people who listen to us. And I think that I like what you said. Procurement is under pressure. Yes, indeed. And I do believe that procurement is a heart of organization because, all processes, all decisions are lined up on procurement desk. So being a finance person, who moved to procurement environment a couple of years ago, I believe, that I can contribute and hold my team to support the organizations in a fast grow and also mitigate the risk. Therefore, together with, external partners, like, any companies which can provide some solutions, technology, processes, etcetera, I believe we can create fantastic environment for better cost optimization, creating added value, and also delivering great solutions which business can use for further business growth agenda. Absolutely. And I think you're completely right. I think procurement is that vein that kinda connects all of the different departments together. So, Joe, same question to you. What is the biggest risk or challenge in procurement today? Hi. Good afternoon, everybody. Delighted to be here. In terms of the biggest risk, I think what we're seeing at the minute and in most recent years, the macroeconomic landscape is constantly changing. So there's been some huge global events and regional events that have shifted, the way that we do business, and it's led to organizations to become more agile and they need to adapt really quickly in an ever changing environment. I think alongside that, we've had the evolution of of AI, which I'm sure we'll touch on throughout the discussion. And that's helping organizations to make quick decisions, that are, that have their business objectives at the heart of that to ensure that we have a continuity of supply and their businesses continue to be successful. So, yeah, delighted to be here, and, thank you very much. Oh, thank you so much for joining us. And AI is definitely a very hot topic at the moment, so we'd be remiss if we didn't mention it. So let's move first into our first discussion, which is why Pepco actually invested in change. So, Carolina, this one's for you. What challenges were you facing with your existing setup before you started on your transformation journey? Thank you for this question. I came to Petco from a very mature organization. So first of all, I was quite a big shock that, there are no very clear, processes or systems which might support, my work or my teamwork. So Petco as a fast growing retailer, which for the last couple of years extended their business for many markets in Europe, it's not a big difference versus any other organizations experiencing rapid growth. We found out that the processes and systems were increasingly challenged by the need for the scale greater scale and agility. And it was just a moment when we found out we need to do something with this and start looking for some solutions. So we reverse the challenge for the opportunity to find the solution and to support better growth of organization, making procurement more professional, standardized. And also, this opportunity gave us it was a great moment to to benefit from the available solutions in the market best in class and contribute just all both to that culture. So what were the elements that made you realize that your current approach just wasn't working and it would not support your business as it scaled? As the business started to scale, it became clear and clear that our existing approach was first too manual and too much fragmented. I think that, it worked at a smaller scale, one country than two countries, five countries. But if we talk about 18 countries, it's not an option. Even we can work remotely after COVID time and we can easily contact each other at that service. It's not about contacting even relationship and soft skills are very important in procurement, but this is more about platform systems and processes. So it couldn't provide, first of all, speed, which is very much important in retail business and in a business which is growing so fast. Control, we need to control to have, you know, data and to analyze and to improve our decisions and also better manage. And consistency, which all three are needed just to support growth without increasing risk and without putting additional strain on on teams. It was just, you know, recognized when we started being more and more active and absorbing also the more and more business initiatives, which should go for procurement. I don't know if I answered on your question, but, you know, it is exactly what we experienced and how we recognized the moment when we need to start looking for better solution to be more professionalized, to digitalize and to replace manual work, by more process driven work. So kind of what Joe was saying earlier, did you implement AI or was it just automation? Yes. Correct. AI is important. However, I think that before you implement AI, it is very much important to prepare the scene for AI. I think that at best stage when we recognize the need to create to to absorb a new system and also to define and design even the processes, we were one step before. So as soon as we have a solution, as soon as we have system, and as soon as the organization follows this, then we can consider to to start using AI and to build another business case just to extend the digitalization and automatic automatic automation. Oh my goodness. It's difficult to add. Automation. Yes. Automation. Exactly. For, for further development. I think it's a great point, Carolina. These days and and quite often you hear people saying we need AI. We need AI. But they haven't the analogy I use is they haven't yet built the cake, and they're trying to put the cherry on the top before the cake is ready. And I think the AI comes as part of the organization's maturity. And once you have that foundation, the solid foundation, then the AI is then the enabler and the kind of cherry on top of the cake. So yeah. I I'm completely aligned and agree with Carolina's point. And is that is that solid foundation a foundation of data? Or is it just a preparedness within the team? I think it's a combination. And, Carolina, you have a different view. I think it's a bit of everything. Right? It's processes, people, technology would be would be my answer. But building on what what you said, Joe, I think that data is very much important. Currently, we are running very, very small project. We we consider to use AI for some ideas. However, my first finding of lessons learned is without the proper data, even with system process and people open to use it, I I will comment this in a moment, we are not capable to introduce it fast because we need first to clean up the kitchen, prepare the input. By the way, Joe, it is very similar what we experienced when we started implementing the tool, what we talked about today, because we also have to clean up the kitchen just to prepare the input for the system readiness. But talking about people, I think it's very much important with the whole discussion which is in media across the world on AI. It creates some uncertainty and concerns on people's side. So I could experience that sometimes even the solution, built on AI is, very attractive. People have some concerns if they should start using this or not, maybe thinking about also about how it will impact my job as my professional life. So this is the big topic, but, okay, maybe for another discussion in the future. So, I mean, let's let's still talk about people. But then, I guess, when you identified the need to transform and to scale up, how did you build the case internally to secure that buy in from leadership? Before I answer your question, I think it is very, important to mention that procurement, even we, people from procurement, believe we are in a a heart of the organization. We are perceived sometimes as a supportive function. So any decisions related to systems implementation investment, it's always more challenging than any other decisions on the core business, core core functions. In our case, it was not as bad. I think that first of our stakeholders understood that we need to, we need to standardize more. However, securing leadership buy in was, I would say, collaborative process because it was not only process driven internally by my team or myself but also by finance IT and business as such. So we emphasize the strategic value of procurement transformation because it was a transformation. It was a journey. It is still a journey focusing on how it would support Petco growth ambitions and strengthen our resilience. So I always prefer to speak the language which proves or show benefits, not concerns. So it was the first step. Yes? And we try to highlight positive outcomes, industry benchmarks, ensuring alignment between broader business objectives and what was very much important. And I think it was a key also just to prove that it will not destroy business daily business, business as usual, but it will improve our stakeholders' ways of working. So it will simplify where we need less time to work with us, and then we will deliver better solution, higher better quality, less cost oriented, whatever. And to prepare this buy in, we invested as a team, we invested a lot of time to understand what the system which we potentially consider to implement can bring us as an organization. And during this process, we recognize that apart from the tangible benefits like cost management, spend visibility, optimization, better supplier management, all analysis, dashboards, KPIs. We will also benefit from, better ways of working, reduce complexity, being more compliant, transparent, and it will also help business just to to to work with us, more efficient in more efficient way. And then when we recognize this and we a little bit, calculate because, you know, everything is about, how much it will cost and how much it will, return. Mhmm. And we prepared this back in, and we were very lucky because we had we had very, rational, but also very supportive stakeholders who at the end, has to make a decision just we do it or not. Fantastic. So, Joe, then from your perspective, are you seeing similar triggers across other organizations? And what typically pushes companies to actually rethink their procurement model? Yeah. Absolutely. I think ensuring control and governance, of spend is always a top priority for organizations irrespective of the sector. And quite often, we see leaders feel as though that before they embark on that transformation that they're full they're flying, blind on spend and risk. So we often see organizations like Pepco where they've scaled, they've grown, and they're keen to rethink that operating model to deliver efficiencies and cost savings through automation. Additionally, cost and value pressures due to the ever changing macroeconomic landscape that, as as I mentioned, trigger businesses to become more agile and and adapt. Brilliant. So let's actually move on to them what it takes to successfully implement transformation. So, you know, Carolina, back to you. What has been the most challenging part of implementing change across multiple markets? I think that implementing change across multi market markets brings, natural, naturally brings complexity. And, the most challenging part has been driving consistent adoption across the markets while respecting very different levels of maturity and ways of working. So local flavor, let's call it. Once I was told by one of my previous bosses that if you want to engage teams, as if you want to make a change, you need to buy in, listen, and slowly but surely provide the change. So it was the third step what we what we, how we approach to this multi markets, implementation. Our focus has been on harmonizing processes while respecting these local requirements, nuances, and listen carefully our colleagues on the markets what they need. With Coupa at Petco, the technology itself was not a bigger or main barrier because I think that we are working in a fantastic teams when people love technology because it's simplifies their ways of working with business of the usual. However, the biggest challenge was, in my opinion, the change management. So aligning stakeholders on standard processes, building discipline, which is very much important around the data compliance, and securing teams understood the why behind the change. And this is very important what I want to underline for any of my colleagues from procurement industry, who consider and to implement any changes or any systems in the future and the tools, I think that this why is very much important. So we spent a lot of time. We invest a lot of efforts. People from business could understand why it is important, not that just we do it because we want to do it. And then it was it was much, easier easier. So I could say summarizing that we approach standardization as a as a journey. It was, important just to balance consistency with flexibility and focus on clear communication stakeholder engagements, through the whole process. So these four elements are the most important. But also, I think that being just a human and listen, sometimes spend some time with our colleagues and to have a chat, maybe not at coffee machine because we are working across campus. However, on Teams, it also helps a lot. It is not the official core process, however, very much support the change. Interesting. You mentioned that the breakdown often comes from the human side of things. Jerry, where do you see the typical breakdown during a project implementation? I think, to echo what Carolina said, it's a combination of the three areas. So process, data, adoption, and there's no single kind of area. It it depends organization to organization. So as Carolina said, process optimization is a key step. We often see organizations maybe over engineering their processes over time, which leads to lengthy workflows and, more people becoming inefficient. And a transformation project provides them with the perfect opportunity to kind of wipe the slate clean and become more efficient. And, as we touched on earlier, these businesses and the the landscape they operate in is constantly changing. So with that, the technology needs to change as well, because something you implement today, given the volatility in the market, may not be fit for purpose in twelve months' time. So we just need to adapt and become more agile. I think, from a data perspective, again, to echo what Caroline said, pour data in, pour data out. So a cleanse is always, recommended and and taking that time to make sure the data is of a, of a of a good and and a clean level. For example, ensuring that accurate and up to date supply segmentation takes place for these organizations ahead of an implementation. And then the final point, I think adoption is is critical. Right? And I'm sure we'll touch on it as a as a theme throughout the conversation. But trying to get it right first time, you have that one window of opportunity to win hearts and minds and get them invested in the tool. So spending the time to embrace the change, identifying champions with, influence is critical, who can support the journey internally. I also had the, I think, effective communication from the champions and the leadership team within the wider business will help people to understand the why, as Carolina said said, and, and how this will positively impact their day to day lives. I think because that tech is changing so frequently, we kind of almost need to gear people up to to be ready for change, to embrace that change. So I think, what what what I find really interesting, is in and I always compare it to COVID. In our day to day lives, we embrace the change, and we all then operate on Teams and Zoom, and that can kind of overnight. So a deployment, a transformation project is very similar. But somehow in b two b, we seem to be, like, a few years behind the kind of day to day life that we live. We all kind of live via our mobile phones and our tablets, and we had the the pandemic pushed upon us, you know, at the top of our heart. We had to adapt really quickly. But, yeah, in business, it seems to be, yeah, a little bit more difficult, but, I'd say there's a lot of similarities. It should be straightforward or easy because we we adapt in our day to day lives. Sorry to put a question there. No. Not at all. And I wonder if, it's because businesses are scared that we're gonna slow down and then we're not gonna get the same ROI. So so, Carolina, how do you approach standardization without actually slowing down the business? I have to say that I disagree with the statement that standardization, slow down the business at least at the end of agenda. Yes. It might be a case that during the transition, there is a kind of, you know, slowing down. But this is, in my opinion, not just slow down but rather, adoption or, just we need to make a change. It takes us longer. And we are human being, and we don't like changes. Yes? So if we I always give some examples from cooking because I love cooking. So if we cook tomato supplies my mom used to do and I want to change something, she will not be very happy because she will complain. I do it in the wrong way. And then so it's completely different than she used to do. The same with the with the standardization and slowing down the business. So the transition period is because we are still in the change. It's not easy, definitely. However, I think and I come back to I make a parable to this why. If people understand why we are doing this and they believe so this is about human faces who who who who sell the project to the organization. I think that standardization, becomes the enabler of speed and transparency, not a blocker. Definitely not. It supports business. And it it is great if in a short period of time that the organization can be convinced that the change, brings this positive, impact on the on the business on ways of working of standardization. So we standardized going to PESCO, we standardized what really matters. Like, Joe mentioned processes, data governance systems. And by the way, we were also very lucky because our partner and thanks Joe for this. I mean, it helped us a lot to standardize the the process and also to prove that the process which we are going to implement is the standard or the best in class in the industry as such. So we concentrated on process governance and data standardization while we were very flexible or maybe limited flexible, but still flexible, in adoption and execution. So with coupon at Pepco, it it means for us that, very clear global standard and decision ownership combined with phased rollout, pragmatic change management, and close collaboration with business. And it helps a lot just to build the standardization and engage the organization to to to go through. So so the standardization, I guess, in the beginning might slow you down, but it's then about streamlining processes to make it much, much easier. So, Joe, then, what tends to differentiate organizations who get it right versus those who struggle? I think, and we're talking about Pepco specific specifically here as well. But I think in general, a willingness to to collaborate and work together. So from Carolina and her team, it was as she said, they they had this vision of best practice. We want this out of the box. We wanna learn from other organizations that are doing this successfully. So being open minded and collaborative is is critical. And I think that's why we had such a good engagement together. I think stakeholder alignment, so buying at multiple levels, so not just the executives. It's got to be at every single level. And as Caroline had touched on earlier, understanding the why and ensuring those business objectives are clear at every level. So understanding the why, and doing that on a level, level by level, basis as well because, the objectives and the output at an executive level may be different to the output, at a head of procurement level and so on and so forth. So, Carolina, then has that has that, buy in at every level then been essential for you in driving adoption across the organization? I think that to show the organization that standardization helps the business move faster and make better decision, was the main success or main reason of success. And sorry that I am thinking a little bit because I really want to say that system implementation and process implementation, it can be said to the organization as a control, mechanism. This is something what could, enable the succession, adoption, implementation, however we call it. So, we have not talked about this during this discussion, but I think that this is where to spend a couple of minutes on this because when you implement process and governance and system with a very clear ownership structure, approvals, and everything is done, people can think organization can think that it is about control only. This is not about control. This is about, unblocking potentials of a spent management, finding the better solution and better supplier management to to save money at the end of the day, but also to use this safe money for any other opportunities and other initiatives within the organization. So, this is something what I really want to say as this is very much important and sometimes being in the shoes of procurement or finance people. I mean, we forget about the business. We are the focus on control and such. It's not about controlling. This is about creating additional value and and explaining this why what we what we already mentioned, earlier during this discussion. I don't know if I answered your question, but I think that this change of perception controls versus creating value is is very much important in adoption? I call it, like, prescribing procurement best practice, but in a way that the end users can self serve. So they still have that freedom of being able to get things quickly and easily in an environment that's similar. And we're talking we're getting to the the solution a little bit here. But the actual experience is similar to what we use in the b t world day to day. So for them to be able to do that and still feel like they have the freedom, but in the background, we have these business rules and processes that, make sure that we're compliant is is really powerful. So, Joe, then what have you seen work well in this space to drive that adoption at scale? I think, investing in training, so be it via digital tools, web some of our customers have have websites and and specific pages on their websites for suppliers and for end users and documentation. So I worked on a number of projects. One that stands out was, a customer had 94% adoption user adoption in the first seven days across 1,200 users, and the 6% was down to people kind of being out of office and and on annual leave. So, they really invested on, in their training. They focused on effective communication, digital training, and video communication, within the business, the wider business. So I think it come it boils down to effective communication and taking everybody on that journey rather than, you know, the carrot and stick approach. It's, you know, it's all about balance. It's really interesting because you normally get at least 10% at the top who don't wanna get involved and 10% at the bottom who don't know how to get involved. But to have 94% is unbelievable. Yeah. I think, for this particular organization, they had a lot of people, out in the field, and they were supplied with tablets, for example. So, they then had this nice new shiny tablet that they've they'd have in their vans, and they'd be able to make the orders. So, yeah, it's kind of to again, taking them on that journey. This is going to make your life easier. You no longer have to wait a day or two for approvals. We can get these these, these items pretty quickly. So, I guess the takeaway is taking them on that journey, fitting that into their everyday lives and how it's going to help them with their day to day job. Yeah. That I think that's a really good point. Making it personal. Making them it's not a business outcome. It's a personal outcome as well. Yeah. So let's move on to our final discussion then. Managing supply chain disruption over the past and the next twelve months. So what are the biggest pressures you're seeing today across cost, supply chain, and margins? If I throw this one to Carolina. Supply chain pressures, are a reality, I think, for all organization today environment. So, this is a a big challenge. At Petco, we, continuously monitor market trends and adapt our strategies to to manage cost and suppliers. By the way, the tool is very helpful also just to have the proper data to make an analysis. And rather than highlighting specific, you know, challenges, we we rather prefer to discuss our proactive measures such as strengthening supplier relationship and investing in risk management and this kind of stuff. But I know that this is not a direct answer of your question, but rather a solution. So what what's really well at us currently is, huge pressure of of inflation, absolutely, supply chain volatility. This is something what I would say is unpredictable but also unexpectedly surprising in some respect, the because of geopolitical situation and margin protection happening together on the same time, which is which is a mix of a of a lot of, a lot of elements which we which we need to, which we need to manage. The energy cost, is important because, I will not say anything which is, surprising, for procurement that, suppliers try to, reimburse the growing energy cost and move it to their clients, which creates a particular effect of effect domino effect. However, you need to manage. And in this respect, the supplier relationship is very much important, long term relationship, and understanding the business from both side. So this is, this is something what what what is the challenge. And on top of this, I feel that I can say a lot of elements which which which, are important for us to manage in current circumstances. However, I will not discover any special, special things. However, what is very much important that the wealth and supply chain constraints has a big impact on how we approach to, procurement and supply management because you need to think by scenario. And this is what I learned a couple of years ago when COVID started. We can't think, like, in the past, I will buy from supplier a because he or she is the cheapest, the most efficient, the highest quality, and my business is very happy to work with them. We need always to have plan b and plan c just to introduce a new solution just in case something happens. So this is which is for me, apart from all of this, energy inflation, supply chain, everything except for all of these tangible things. The most important part that we as leaders in procurement need to change and need to change the approach how to manage the risk and how to mitigate any potential challenges. So this is what we discussed within PEDCO and this is also what I want to underline that in current circumstances it is very much important to to be a part of to work in a very flexible way. So you need to make a decisions very fast. Sometimes it is just like a bet. You make a decision. However, you need to react, and you need to predict what can happen. So so this is this is something what, worries us a lot and what we try to mitigate, from the company perspective. Sure. I think I think given the, you know, society we live in at the moment, building resilience into your procurement strategy is is a 100% you know, it has to be done. So, Joe, are you seeing similar pressures across other organizations that you speak to? Does is there anything that is standing out for you at the moment? Yeah. Absolutely. Obviously, I'm in the process of moving back to The UK from The Middle East, so I've kind of dealt with that firsthand with existing customers and how their, their organizations are having to adapt and become agile really, you know, at the drop of a hat. So I think every year, as I touched on at the start of the conversation, there's there there there's something that has a global impact and a knock on effect. And, with the pandemic, the energy price hikes, the geopolitical instability, all of these things have a knock on effect and increase the the pressures faced by businesses. So day to day when they're, trying to keep their businesses running, but also consumers. So that knock on effects comes down to us as individuals in our everyday life as well. So, yeah, the same pressures globally, and every single year, there seems to be something slightly different, which keeps us all on our toes. Every six months, it seems. So where are you seeing the most risk across your supplier base then, Carolina? Is is are you seeing it with your suppliers as well? Maybe I will surprise you, but, I don't see, you know, very huge risk on this. If you are diversified and if you, have some scenario planning, it has to be managed, and this is something which, I wouldn't say it's bigger than it used to be in the past. For last ten almost ten years, we are impacted by COVID, by war in Ukraine, now with The Middle East or any other situations which, impacts directly the prices. I remember from my past when we I was working in a different industry, and, there was one of element which was very much important for the from the production perspective. And if this element the cost of this element starts to growing, sorry for my language like a hell, then you can panic or you can mitigate the risk. If you are very well structured as a organization, if you have process, if you have mitigation planning, in place, and if you have system which provides you a proper data, you could react just or at the proper moment or before just to react and to mitigate and secure the the better position. The same, I apply in in Petco. I think that this is just a business as usual in current circumstances, that suppliers, and supply market is changing and is impacted or challenged by any geopolitical situation which are not predictable. So answering your question, I know that maybe this is not very sexy answer. However, I I really want to underline that sometimes I think that we may be a little bit exaggerate the situations because I don't remember the more than twenty years in, corporate business that there was a year which didn't have any implication, any challenges, and any reason just to to to have some concerns how to manage. This is this is how I approach to the current situation. And maybe last comment which is important to share, we invest a lot of money into people education. What I mean? I mean, people need to understand better end to end and also how we go political situation can impact the business and also to understand how that they can't be detached from the, information which even during the weekend we receive. And I'm sure that I you will know what I mean. Sometimes you listen something that's maybe not ready. I have a little bit older, but, in, in the Internet, whatever. And then you know that you need to react because it is correlated with your company, agenda. So this change is for sure important. So we're wrapping up. But, Carolina, then I'll go to you. What has changed the most in the past twelve months in how you manage supplier and spend? For past twelve months, you mean? Yeah. For the past twelve months. Again, I will surprise you, but I really don't see a huge changes. And I think that, managing suppliers, what is the most important, this is about trust and long term relationship. This is definitely much more important than it used to be a couple of years ago because if you understand the business, I mean, between yourself, then you can always find solutions. So I think that maybe we shift a little bit from the pure negotiations to more value engineering, whatever, we however we define it because it doesn't have to be purely by definition value engineering, but it can be also a little bit working together on finding the potential opportunities of, of optimizing cost. But also what is very much important, how we can work differently to secure better security, to make a better, to in to improve to secure security of supply. This is something what definitely I see, and I think that this is a biggest change in managing the suppliers. The truth is that I am I have a lot of concern, thinking about my suppliers or Petco suppliers that we as a procurement team manage them. I think that this is reverse management. Yes. And I do believe that if you have a long term relation with supplier, you you can build trust, but you can also build environment when in circumstances like let's let's take an example, containers red growing. You can discuss how you can measure how you can manage this better. So summarizing, shift from pure negotiations to more open discussions on, how we can improve, optimize together, or what to change, not to sacrifice the, value, however, especially for clients, but just to benefit on a cost. The second one building on this, this is, it requires, better people, wider people, more like managers, not like leaders, not like only purely buyers. So this is something what is definitely, we we observe, that competencies of procurement people are changing or the the different competencies are required to manage successfully the business. And last but not least is I think with both sides because I really, you know, not I am against to to set statement that company managed suppliers is both way. However, what is very much important that, you need to plan sometimes, in advance, some changes or some, some new, new requirements, new sourcing events, whatever. Yes? This is this is something what is very much important. So looking ahead the next twelve months, what are your major concerns? Honestly, my biggest concern over the next twelve months is, people capacity, resilience, and engagement. I think that, at least in my company in Pepco, we are running several transformation in parallel, and this is not anything unique versus any other corporate. And, we need still deliver day to day results, and it puts a lot of pressure on things. So making sure people have clear priorities, the right skills, enough space to adopt. And in my opinion, it will be very much critical to be successful as an organization and to properly build a relation and manage suppliers and manage supply chain as a end to end process. More, I think that if I have a crystal ball and I could predict what will happen, probably I would sit, I don't know, maybe on Bahama or in Cosmos just to enjoying life. However however, this is the beauty of current circumstances that we don't know what the future will bring. So we need to be open minded and to play for a lot of pianos instead of only one just to to be ready for for any challenges which next twelve months can bring. This is this is how I approach this. But people teams, are the most important part, in the whole picture. I know that today discussion is not about people. It's more about procurement, professionalization, technology, and, how system can support, procurement efficiency. However, without people, none of these, elements would, would be important. Brilliant. And then final question then for you, Joe, is what are the shifts that you're seeing organizations prepare for now? I think, yes. So organizations are preparing, as as Carolina said, to tackle that volatility, and they're doing that by trying to get ahead of the curve, through the use of technology. So preempting those risks in supply chains, using technology not just as enabler as an enabler, but as a game changer, which will give them competitive advantage over their their competitors. But to Carolina's point, the human element, as we we talked to in the very beginning, it's probably a nice segue to to kind of end the discussion is the AI boom. Without humans, the AI boom would never happen. So AI is relying on the data, from humans and the human input, and it will only get smarter with that input. So, there's a there's a huge reliance on the on the people element. Brilliant. A nice optimistic outlook on AI, which we often forget. So we are rapidly ending this this webinar. However, I have got one more question for both of you. So if I can get you guys to give me thirty second answers, that would be amazing. Carolina, my question for you is, what is the biggest lesson that you've learned on this journey? If you would start again, what would you do differently? I am looking back. Transformation offers always valuable lessons. For me, what it is, I think that if I could start again, I would have invested even earlier in change management and stakeholder alignment alongside with the technology rollout. So starting the conversation sooner around behaviors, ownership, discipline rather than focusing on the system fits, Maybe I was very lucky and my team was very lucky because Jotin was absolutely amazing helping us just to, to understand and to to be close to technology, to the system as such. However, I think that investing time into, people as the internal clients, stakeholders, and change management is very much important. So this is my lesson as well. Fabulous. And, Joe, my my last question for you then is what is the number one piece of advice that you give to an organization when they're preparing for a transformation? I think, to Carolina's point, would be engage all stakeholders as early as possible, be clear on the objectives, the output, and the value that will be derived from from that transformation project. Yeah. I think in a nutshell, that's that's probably the one piece of advice I'd give. That was perfect. So I'm afraid that is actually all we have time for today. I want to say a massive thank you to Carolina for being so transparent about the Pepco journey, and thank you to Joe for providing that essential bird's eye view of the broader industry shifts. If there's one thing to take away from today's discussion, it's that successful procurement isn't just about the software or the process. It's about the agility to handle the disruptions. For those of you whose questions we didn't get to, we will follow-up via email. This webinar will be available online shortly, so please come back and watch it again and, of course, share it with your colleagues. Thank you for joining us, and thank you to our panelists again. We hope to see you all at the next session, And bye bye for now.