Name: The Resilience Gap: Why Even the Best Manufacturing Supply Chains Are Still Too Reactive
Uploaded: 2025-12-09T16:16:13.991Z
Duration: 1 h 8 s
Description: The Resilience Gap: Why Even the Best Manufacturing Supply Chains Are Still Too Reactive

Transcript for "The Resilience Gap: Why Even the Best Manufacturing Supply Chains Are Still Too Reactive": Hello, everyone, and welcome to our webinar in partnership with Jagger. My name is Tom Chapman, and I'm the editor of Procurement Magazine. Today's session is on the resilience gap, why even the best automotive supply chains are still too reactive. It's a challenge we're seeing across automotive manufacturing and the wider supply chain ecosystem. In this webinar, we're gonna explore why these resilience gaps persist and why so many procurement teams are still held back by fragmented systems, slow data flow, and supplier collaboration that hasn't kept pace with today's volatility. We'll also look at how data driven end to end supplier collaboration can shift that picture and how manufacturers are using Jagger One to improve speed, strengthen quality, and compliance, deepen supplier relationships, and build a level of resilience that traditional procurement models simply can't support. I'm pleased to say we've got two brilliant experts with us today to unpack these themes and share their real world experience. I'm joined by Sami Heil, global manufacturing lead at Jager, and Michael Hsu, managing director of Aneon. Sami, Michael, thank you so much for being here today. Before we jump into the discussion, perhaps each of you could just for for thirty seconds or so, just start by introducing yourselves and your role. Sammy, we'll start with you. Sure. Thank you. Tom, Michael, I'm Sammy from Jager. I'm with Jager for about three years, and I'm leading all strategic activities in the manufacturing vertical globally. Michael? Thank you, Tom, for having me. I'm Michael Shu, managing director of Alliance Solutions. I've been working since round about eighteen years in the procurement space, always implementing complex projects, complex digitalization projects, and I'm really happy to discuss with you today, the topics and deep dive into the details. Fantastic. Yeah. No. Really exciting. Let's let's get stuck into it then, shall we? Let's get into the the crux of our discussion. Now I believe you guys have got some some slides you'd like to like to share with us today. Michael, should we start just by talking a bit about the history of Anion and what the business really specializes in today? Yeah. Sure. Yeah. So Anion is a a company located in Austria, but we are part of a bigger group. So we are part of the HNT group, and HNT itself is a management consultancy based in Munich. We are specialized and also well known in the market in for procurement, topics around about everything what covers procurement, starting from market operating models, procurement initiatives, these times, cost out projects, very familiar, in in that area. And in 2021, we decided to become a full liner in the procurement area, and also not just doing the tool selection for our clients and supporting them throughout their journey, but we also wanted to implement the solutions, for the clients end to end. They're starting with the tool selection, ending up in the rollout, pushing the utilization that they really get value, out of the solution. We're around about 850 consultants in the group. And Aon is, now 45 people, strong, just focusing on digitalization in the purchasing area. Fantastic. So an ever growing and, I suppose, pretty extensive, operation these days. Michael, let's dig a little bit deeper, if we can, into an Aon's consulting capabilities. You know, what more is there to it? Sure. Yeah. So we have we have four service lines, which we utilize in in every project, and, we will come later, to the details. But on a high level perspective, you can see with project management, design, technical capabilities and configuration, and also change in training. Yeah. So we have a unique value driven, program or project management approach. We focus very, very, deeply on the design phase. Yeah. That's one of our USPs. We will also come to that later. But in detail, we we can say we have the functional expertise and the technical expertise, that we can configure and also integrate it. So a deep integration, these days is very important for the clients, to not having silo systems, but you need to talk to every other ERP or third party system to get really value out of the system. And then in the end, that's that's a game changer for all the projects to really push the push the utilization, is having a good transformation story, a good change story, enable the users that can really utilize the system very well. Great stuff. We're obviously gonna be talking, Jagger quite a lot today. Michael, which of your major clients are using, Jagger applications today? Yeah. So you can see here, that's, just one just example from from our clients, which we implemented or helped them, over the years to implement a solution or get better utilization out of it or enhance it, let's say it in that words. But we are clearly focused, you can see, on direct material customers. So that's, that's our specialty. Yeah. So we're also doing banking insurance there, but we're really focusing on manufacturing automotive suppliers, and this is where we also bring our experience in. Fantastic. Quite quite a few, familiar names on there. I think it's I think it's fair to say. Let's talk more than I meant I mentioned Jagger there. Let's talk more than about the a Neon Jagger partnership and really the added value that you you can offer together. Yeah. So what what we see out there is that, the problems of the clients, are not really solved with just a solution or a softer product there. And we have a strong partnership, also due to my legacy. I also worked for Chegga for for many, many years and and was responsible there for one of the project teams, especially in the direct procurement area. And we have the expertise, in the house, the procurement expertise. So we know the processes. We know how procurement department is really working. Yeah. We have the technical capabilities from configuring the application, and also integrate it to various systems, as mentioned before, ERP systems and third party systems. And we have a strong track record in the in the industry, especially in the manufacturing automotive industry with a lot of reference clients and and success stories, which we can also later on share with you. Yeah. Absolutely. Yes. We'll certainly certainly come on to those. And I understand you do have a a specific project that you can tell us a little bit more about involve involving an automotive tier one customer. Sure. Yes. So it's one one as I mentioned, one automotive tier one customer, very complex environment, a lot of ERP systems, involved. And, the main goal was, back to better standards. They wanted to have not the single systems anymore, and in in every location or business unit, separate systems. They want they wanted to have one system, one checker one system, yeah, in the end where they have all the procurement processes and all the data in. And we worked with them from an early stage, so from really the planning phase where when we started, what are the ERP systems in scope? How does this fit, to the s four transformation, they have on their road map? How we can cover the the sundown timelines for the legacy systems? How do we start? And it was in the beginning, not a journey of changing a tool or establish a new tool. It was in the beginning a journey of how do we harmonize processes and do all work in the same way, and do we all have the same understanding, for example, for a p two p process or a source to contract process? Where is the process start? Where is the process ending? What are the benefits there? And and also discussing with them, what will not be covered in the future. So because they built the legacy system over many, many years there, and they built in everything, what what they had in mind there. And now we are going back to a SaaS solution, and implementing a SaaS solution where you have guardrails here, which you can't change here, and you need to stick to that, to also save money later on in in updating the the system and and roll it out there. Great stuff, Michael. That's a really, really fantastic explanation. Samuel, I wanna I wanna bring you in here. You know, we're, of course, living through really difficult, volatile sort of times, you might say. What what barriers to resilient procurement are you are you really seeing on the ground? Thanks for the question, Tom. So actually, if we go into the details, we have listed a couple of barriers that we see on a daily base on the ground in front of prospects and customers such as relying on a single source, lack of data transparency, extremely important, weak supplier management. This is something that we need to emphasize. So the suppliers, your single point of contact in regards of resilience, in regards of risk, in regards of partnership. And here, you need to have a reliable supplier management, which not only automates and digit digitizes the process, but also makes it easy for your supplier to access all kinds of data and access all kinds of information that's necessary for the daily business. So data silos, as Michael, explained, is one of the important topics which creates a lot of risk in major globally acting enterprises. No proactive risk management, so always being reactive, waiting for something to happen and then try to figure out how to act against it. And last but not least, the not so fancy topic, but neglecting ESG compliance is also one of the major topics that might hit you on the long run. So if you want to wrap this up, basically, it's three major teams that I try to figure out. And number one is the majority of global supply chains are still fragile. Only a small minority have the capabilities to really absorb shocks without falling straight back into firefighting, as I said. And here we have a major analyst estimating basically that over 60% of supply chains within manufacturing are still fragile, and only a single digit percentage are truly resilient. You have to imagine what we're speaking about. The second major team I figured out, part of the resilience gap is governance. So volatility is structurally higher, but executive attention is cyclical and fades as soon as the crisis is basically over. So this is also one of the most important topics. Don't only act as soon as the crisis appears, but prepare for the next crisis, basically. And last but not least, in my opinion, the more technical side, data is very fragmented. Planning is very slow and supply collaboration is largely analog even in the date of 2025. So this is a perfect recipe for reacting late to every kind of disruption in my opinion. Fantastic. So how then? I I suppose that teases up very nicely to to answer how Jagger One is really powering resilience then. Now we need to take this that we just learned and translate this into actions. And here, Jager, for sure, is your partner that will help you to really action, all of these tasks that we figured out. So number one of the foundation of resilience, in my opinion, is unified visibility. Bring all of your data into one platform, make it usable for your internal stakeholders, but also for sure for your external stakeholders, such as your suppliers, for example. And to be able to handle this, you need the integrated supplier management as we can see, but also supply performance management. So the supply management brings in all of the information from different ERP systems, from different parts of the function procurement, because procurement is not just one function. It's split into several sub functions, strategic procurement, category management, tactical, operational procurement, supplier quality engineers, etcetera, etcetera. Bring this bring all of the stakeholders into one centralized supplier management, as well as the technical part of ERP systems and third party solutions. And then you also have to measure your supplier performance to be able to understand how are they performing now and to be able to predict how they might perform in future. That's one side of things. The next side of things that I would like to emphasize is the real time supplier collaboration because you have the signals. They're happening anyways. They might come in via email, via fax. But if you have a digital way of bringing in the signals, you have a faster approach to react to signals that might not fit into your strategy. So here we have our direct material direct material collaboration, which digitizes the whole operational procurement activities and fully integrates into the supplier ERP system if necessary and the internal ERP system. So you have a real time data transmission, which is very, very valuable if we're speaking about resilience in procurement. And last but not least, external data integration and sustainability and compliance. You need to have a platform that not only measures your internal KPIs that you measure, but also enrich it by external information because they're living in a digital time. You have a lot of information available on the market, basically, from risk data, performance data, banking data, etcetera etcetera. Bring it all into one platform. Find the right solution, which fits not only general manufacturing needs, but especially your needs in the vertical you are operating in the geographical location you are sitting, and then this will help you to really predict data for the future and predict potential risk situations in the future. Great. Thanks, Hamid. Well, the Michael, I wanna come back to you then. So what exactly and this is surely gonna be gold dust for our for our audience here. What is then the secret to successful implementation of these types of supplier collaboration platforms? Yeah. So you heard it's not just only, the software. Lot around about it there. And just to implement such a solution, very successful there, you you need some ingredients there. And over the time, we developed, we call it, the 10 golden rules for supplier collaboration, and especially for the implementation of such programs. And with these ingredients, it normally works out, or works out very well. Yeah. And in the end, there is a happy client and and a successful project there. So I think we can go into the details if you want. And yeah. And you see here already, the the first bullet point, which is marked is, clarity. Success begins with, clarity, defining what needs to be implemented, what is the scope. I'm also defining what is not in scope, and on which items, do we look especially, which systems needs to be integrated and so on and so forth. So clarity is key, and we need also a clear statement from the stakeholders or the sponsors of such projects, which helps us there to to implement the solution and going in the right direction and also, doing the right decisions on the way. Absolutely. So from where from your perspective then, where do companies usually see the the biggest transformation following their their Jagger implementation? Where are they really seeing those marked improvements? Yeah. So they see the improvements in breaking down the silos, so we're not implementing silos anymore. So we have one system, one platform integrated into all back end system systems, and there is also a partial change and and the change in the working mode. Yeah. And you see it here, we clearly define this in in the design phase. So we have a unique approach, how we do the design with a two, step, approach when when we start with the design. And you can see it here. We start with the so called functional design, and then the functional design is handed over into the solution design. And in the functional design, we clearly define with the client the target process, and and also challenge them, on good or best practice processes we know from the industry. Yeah? And when the process is clear, it's much easier than also for the users. So for for for the the project team members as well, to see and understand how this could be then the blueprint or or call me call it solution design for the implementation team. Yeah. It's less a technical implementation, discussing with the clients, a mask and asking them which of the 15 feelings you see we should hide there or which feeling should be mandatory. It's really really coming from the basics. What's your process? How the process looks like for other companies? What can be matched? What needs to be adapted? Where do we need process harmonization? Because we always say a bad process digitalized is still a bad process. Yeah. So we need to start with the process first and then doing the exercise in the system later on. I would like to add something. Tom, sorry, guys, for because I like what Michael said here. And maybe one word about my background. I spent my whole life in procurement starting as a working student, and in my last job managing multiple teams globally in procurement. And what I learned and I was a Jager customer with three x employers, by the way. So what I learned about all of what Michael just described is basically also the change management part. It's not always about the technical fields and functions. It's also about the change management. So you need to lead your teams to embrace the solution, and then the results will come way quicker. Many teams are always a little bit of defensive if it comes to digital solutions and not understanding that this might bring a value in regards of achieving more time for strategic activity. So it's on one hand defining reasonable processes and getting very, very in-depth consulting by, for example, Michael and his team, but also pushing the change management side because teams needs to understand it's beneficial for them, not just for the business. And this is also a point I would like to emphasize. Great. That's fantastic. Thanks, Sammy. And I I guess, actually, that brings us on really nicely to the next stage or the or number three, I should say, in your the 10 golden rules, change in communication in phase zero, which I suppose means from the very start of of the process. Michael, what does that actually mean in in practice? Yeah. So So as Tom mentioned, change is crucial for for the for the project success, and we say, change in communication starts at day one. Yeah? And especially, better say, at day zero, yeah, before you start really with the project, you need to communicate to to you the users, to the audience, to the stakeholders, to the managers in the organization what will come, what will change, and what's in for them. Yeah. So I also have a a slide here to discuss it in in more detail. What are the goals and and what is the change process itself there? So we need to define goals. We we have a common approach. We have a change toolkit, which is, which was developed over many, many project. And after each project, we we, enhance it there and and also reframe it there. And we follow a clear process. It's the awareness, desire, knowledge, ability, and reinforcement approach. Yeah. And you need to have the story, for the users and for the different, you call it, personas. Yeah. Because you need to communicate in another way and with another story to stakeholder, or to an, a requisition which starts, a shopping cart, for example, in in the system. Yeah. So you have different personas. You have different audience group, and and you need to really communicate in the right way. And what is always the most important thing is what is in for me. Yeah. So they need to understand what to get from the new system or from the new process and how they can support, their organization. Yeah. Great stuff, Michael. So the change in communication phase is is out of the way or at least it's implemented. What comes next when it, on the list of of golden rules? Yeah. So the resourcing, and role and responsibility definition. Yeah. So like in change, the success is related to the people in the project. Yeah. And, therefore, we need to understand which people are available. We need to get the right people into the project. We need to have decision makers. We need people in in the project which are familiar with new tools, which want to learn new systems there and and really ambassadors which help us, to bring the project, to to the next level or to success. Yeah. And, therefore, we also have a defined roles and responsibility model and the and the governance model which we have in place. So that's also blueprint for the clients that they can see, which type of people do we need. So it's also combined with the Skinville matrix or an assessment there that we have the right people on the project because it really makes a difference, and also a clear definition of responsibilities, and roles. So who is responsible for what? Yeah. We have the the classic there where we define on on work item level or work package level, who's responsible, who's in charge, who will be informed, and so on and so forth. And and if that, playbook is clear, yeah, and it's also rolled out in in the project team, Everybody knows what needs to be done. Absolutely. Yeah. All important, I I can imagine in these, in these undertakings. I suppose one thing that really catches my eye, I've got to say when I look at these golden rules is is is the point about prioritizing a well structured rollout plan. And as part of this, I assume it's it must be crucial that regular training. I suppose we go back to that earlier change management piece, but surely crucial, regular training is really crucial for for those key users, Michael. That's that's yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. So you you need to have the right training approach. You need to figure out first what works well in your organization. So there are different training materials and training approaches out there as you can start with classroom trainings, for example, or you can do videos or, in tool guidance there, and and you need to figure out what works well in your organization, what works well for for the business case or the modules or the processes we and then you need to find the right training approach. Yeah. But training is crucial. It's it's the same like in the change management. Yeah. You you need to adopt there, depending on the personas which you train because I can do classroom trainings for key users or or tool champions, for example. Yeah. But if I'm implementing a p two p solution where everybody in my organization, can start a shopping cart in the tool. Yeah. Like you do it in Amazon, you can't train them, yeah, especially in in big enterprises or or complex company organizations. And, therefore, you have also with with Jaeger the capability, We call it Checkatrade opt to do in tool training. So the system guides you through the process. You do the first login, then you are guided, through the different process steps. Yeah. But training is very, very important. Yeah. And if you do not do proper training, then the utilization later on, will be very bad there because nobody knows what needs to be done. Yeah. And, also, if you link it again back to change management there, so the people are used to have to say, they always when something is new, it's bad. Yeah? You can have the best user interface, really pretty looking, and so on and so forth. If they're used to an old mask, they will always say, it worked the last twenty years in another way, and it worked very well. Why we need to change? And, therefore, you need to communicate very early, and then we need to train them, because, also, what we figured out in our experience is if you have the best tool with the best user interface, the people need training, and they need to understand what they need to do. Yeah. I would like to add something, actually, at this point. I like what Michael said before. A bad process digitalized is a bad digital process. And, with Jagger Adapt, one of the capabilities that we speak, how Jagger is able to help procurement leaders and procurement teams, create resilience and manage risk, then Jagger Adapt has a capability of tracking cycle times of business processes. So it really tracks the clicks and how long business stakeholders spend in one of the sub steps of a business process, and this helps you as a procurement, lead our procurement excellence manager to understand that maybe we have a bottleneck with our process. So you cannot only implement the process successfully, but you can also really enhance the process and it gets more mature with time by implementing a solution like Jagger. So these are really the small and minor benefits that a solution like Jagger might bring, but this will help you usually on the long run. This is just something I would like to point out. Mhmm. Great. That's that's that's right, Stanley. Yeah. Because there are there are there other way, those who can help you to really calculate the business case, yeah, or or the the business plan, and and and easily calculate the ROI. Because if you have a transaction based module and you say, okay. Typing in an order confirmation in the EAP system takes the user seven minutes normally. Yeah. And now the seven minutes are covered by a tool. You can easily calculate, the ROI for for such implementation. And and this is also then perfectly supported by the check or adopt, module that you can really measure the cycle times. Great stuff. So some real really helpful benefits being, being mentioned there. So thanks thanks both of you. Following on from that then, how important is it as we you know, I suppose this can, can come at a different could come at a different stage, I should say, of the of the rollout. But, how important would you say, just kinda summarizing, is it in a clear definition of roles during the rollout. You you can see here. Yeah. Over here, it needs to be clear which roles are involved, how we do the rollout. This this is an example here. It's from from another project. And you need someone who is responsible and in charge for the rollout. You also need, technical, and process teams on the ground. Yeah. So you really need people then, on the ground, explaining the users why they need to use it, how it is used, and we also need the clear governance model here upfront. What will be localized there? Because, normally, we start with the global implementation. Yeah. And there's also parts then of the design phase here. So we're we're defining the core process. Yeah. And then in the governance, discussions, we also need to discuss with the stakeholders how many, localization review or or screen set we want there because there are some processes which needs to be localized there due to tax, regulatory, for example. But if we talk about an entire supplier management process itself there, that could be global process there, and we do not need a localization here from the different unit sales. So there also needs to be a clear governance model and also a clear communication from the stakeholders or sponsors to the location for the rollout, what is part of the program, what is the target picture, and what we want to achieve. Great stuff. Thanks, Michael. I think you wanted Michael as well to take us through this train the trainer approach. You know, for anyone who's less familiar, what does that mean in practice? You know? And how can we how can we how can we take that approach? Yeah. So trainer trainer is important. So we as a consultancy can train all the users. Yeah. But, in the past, yeah, we also figured out that if we enable a customer to do the trainings by their own, it's on the one hand side easier for the their users to adopt there because someone from my organization is trading me on the topic. Yeah. And on the other hand, they get used to the system, yeah, and we help them to be better trainers. Yeah. So we have also development program, during the projects to enable the trainers to be better trainers. So enable them how such a training should look like, how you measure it later on, what are the key messages. And on the other hand side, if you do a lot of trainings and you get a lot of questions asked, and we we do this and that, Yeah. They they are getting from trainers to administrators and and often local, change managers, and users because they learn the system very well. They know they knew the the questions there which are coming up, and they can directly facilitate the changes in the system. Yeah. So it's really good outcome. And as I said before, we support them with, a trading handbook. We create the training materials. Yeah. We have the questionnaires for them there, that also the audience can rate the trainer what needs to be, adapted there. So that's, yeah, really working well during the projects. Yeah. Absolutely. Great stuff. Thanks again, Michael. Now at the final stage on our on our 10 golden rules, plan, we've got the need to define one inflammation partner, being responsible for for all topics. Just how crucial just as we summarize, how crucial is that, Michael? Yeah. That that's really crucial, and we call it SPOC, seal, point of contact. So you need someone who is in charge for the entire program or project. Yeah? Because you have many partners involved. Yeah. It's on the one hand side, the implementation partner itself is which is doing the integration, then maybe you have some integration partners as well, in the project, which are doing the integration to the back end systems, to the ERP systems. You have third party providers involved. There are, like risk data or financial data, which needs to be included. Then you have the customer project team. Yeah. Normally, with the project manager from the business and the IT department, then you have different work stream leads or, sub project managers, and you need someone who is in charge of that all, has the overview of the project plan, timing, rollout, budget, and so on and so forth. Yeah. And so you need one single point of contact, which is orchestrating, let's say, in that words, the complete program. Yeah. Great stuff. And, I like the sound of Spark. I think that's one that's gonna gonna stay in the mind and is a, yeah, relatively easy one to remember there. So I'm a big fan of that. Sammy, anything you'd like to add at all there, you know, in relation to our to our 10 golden rules? I think they're sort of a, you know, a really a really useful structure that I think others could could well replicate. Yeah. So I think Michael is very, very knowledgeable about the procurement sector, which enables him to not only understand the functional part, but also the business processes behind it. And this is why I love working with Michael and his team because you don't only find a implementer for the solution or implementation part. You really find a consultant that also helps you to get better in regards of your own existing processes. And this is one of the most important parts because what I've experienced as a customer, as well as also now, consulting, our prospect and customers, is that many of them want to take the status quo business processes and turn it into a digital process. And sometimes that might work, but sometimes you also see that, hey. You can tweak a little bit and maybe achieve an even better goal. That's one part. So if you have a partner, then look out for a partner that does that don't only have the technical knowledge, but also understands the business and the vertical. And with Anil and Michael's team and, Michael, you have really a perfect partner in regards of both sides of this whole project. And the other part I would like to emphasize is not only the project itself, but also internal stakeholders. And I know I am jumping around on that topic, but I manage teams globally that implemented solutions. And one of the most important parts that I figured out, while running through these processes is that you need to transition the meaning of responsibility from this negative side, because responsibility is always I need to carry load, to a more, I want to carry this load because I think it brings value. Yeah? And if you get this transition in the minds of your stakeholders, they will be the apricots internally towards people that are not always happy to push such a project. So those are the two things I would like to emphasize. Great. Great. No. That's brilliant. Thanks, Sami. I know it's been fantastic hearing about the relationship and fantastic hearing all that insight from from both of you. Thank you so much. I'm gonna move on now to see whether we've got some some, some audience questions. I'm pleased to say we do. Otherwise, that could have been quite awkward for me. We've got a there's a a presubmitted audience question I wanna go in on, actually. It reads, I'm the procurement manager from a mid sized components manufacturer. Our biggest issue is supplier responsiveness, especially when multiple conversations happen across email, spreadsheets, and portals. Does Jager One actually change supplier behavior, or is it just another another tool for them? Sami, do you wanna tackle that one? Sure. Actually, a great question because this really digs deep into the whole operational side of your collaboration with your suppliers. And, yes, for sure, Jagger One changes supplier behaviors because it replaces fragmented communications with really consistent real time collaboration channels. So suppliers no longer join with emails, spreadsheets, plan specific portals, etcetera etcetera. They get one place to receive all the necessary information like forecast, confirming POs, flagging delays, managing quality actions, all on one portal. And the next benefit is that, basically, if your supplier logs in into his portal, he only have one login data, then he might take care of your needs, but also on a, for sure, differentiated portal for the needs of his next customer. But with one login, this eases the process a lot for the suppliers and also creates acceptance because this is one of the hurdles you might find. Supplies complaining about, I need 50 logins. No. With Jagger, it's different. It's one login into communication and collaboration with all of your customers, and this is one of the major benefits we provide. So the result is basically past acknowledgments, fewer misses. And, also, and very important for you as a customer, earlier warning signals. So you are nearer to your data and to the transactions, not because supply works work harder, but basically because the process finally works the same way every time. Yeah. Great. And if and if you implement the full solution, Samuel, you have everything there. Yeah. So starting from maintaining merge certificates, getting my RFQs, seeing which actions, are placed there, maybe from quality issues or from development plans. I I see my my key PIs there from quality perspective or a pricing perspective. I can find my orders there, call offs, forecast information. I can do VMI for for my clients. And so I have really everything in one spot, and I think this is really key differentiator also then for the suppliers. And and then they see the benefit that it's not not another tool, so then it should be only the the single or the the one tool for the supplier for this customer. Yeah. Absolutely. Thank you, Michael. Brilliant. Brilliant. Thanks thanks to both of you. It's been a it's been a fascinating conversation. We appreciate the input from from both of you. I'm afraid, however, that is all we've got time for for today. My thanks to you for watching. And for all those unanswered questions, I'm afraid we didn't quite have time to get to you. We we will reach out to you, post webinar to try and to try and answer those. Sammy, Michael, it's been great chatting to you. We'll, we'll speak again very soon, no doubt. Thank you so much for for your time today. Definitely. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Tom. Thanks so much. The recording of the webinar will be available shortly, I'm pleased to say. So if you so desire, you can come back and watch it all over again. But for now, thanks to you so much all for watching. Bye for now.